AusBonsai

Thanks Steve for sharing that with us, there's some good advice there. Probably helpful for you to capture that while it's still fresh in your mind too.
When I get a chance I'll start the process with my own Junipers.
Did you hear Koji say how he keeps trees in the ground for about 100 years? Or at a minimum for 40? Definitely playing the long game!

I wonder if anyone who participated in this since 6 years ago now, can do a bit of a show and tell? I'd like to see where everyone is up to now with producing better bonsai stock.

Here are some more pictures of what I have under way Tien.
Following his last advice that these needed to be more compact I twisted this trunk even more but still a long way from Jow's example above. Note that the foliage has been removed from the middle of the sacrifice branches even before Steven gave us Koji's advice #2 is more open but should still make a nice trunk when it thickens a bit. #3 - again far more open than the shohin Jow is looking for but....... In the initial bending I did get a couple of tight bends. As the trunk thickens the tighter bends and twists merge into each other and will look good in time. The possibilities for shari look good but where to start?

thank you Neil
i have some shimpaku that i started about 8 years ago. they are at the similar stage as your. i am kind of just wiring every significant branches for the third times now to keep adding movement and interest to the tree, many of which will be jinned later. i sold the best one to a fellow ausbonsai member, if he is following this, perhaps he can share what it looks like now.

i kind of get the feeling that by simply wiring young stock into exagerated twists and bends is only part of how the Japanese grow their bonsai materials. there seemed to be a lot more involved that are yet to be covered in this thread...................?


regards


Tien

shibui wrote:

I wonder if anyone who participated in this since 6 years ago now, can do a bit of a show and tell? I'd like to see where everyone is up to now with producing better bonsai stock.

Here are some more pictures of what I have under way Tien.
Following his last advice that these needed to be more compact I twisted this trunk even more but still a long way from Jow's example above. Note that the foliage has been removed from the middle of the sacrifice branches even before Steven gave us Koji's advice

shimpaku twisted 1 01.JPG

shimpaku twisted 1 02.JPG

#2 is more open but should still make a nice trunk when it thickens a bit.

shimpaku twisted 2 1.JPG

shimpaku twisted 2 2.JPG

#3 - again far more open than the shohin Jow is looking for but.......

shimpaku twisted 3 1.JPG

shimpaku twisted 3 2.JPG

In the initial bending I did get a couple of tight bends. As the trunk thickens the tighter bends and twists merge into each other and will look good in time. The possibilities for shari look good but where to start?

shimpaku twisted 4 4.JPG

Nice work shibui. There are going to be some nice little junipers around in the coming years.

i kind of get the feeling that by simply wiring young stock into exagerated twists and bends is only part of how the Japanese grow their bonsai materials. there seemed to be a lot more involved that are yet to be covered in this thread...................?

I agree Tien. there is much more to this than appears at first glance.
This line:

Wire early. Ensure there are NO straight sections. Put exaggerated bends into the trunk and all branches. Bends should be forwards and backwards as well as side to side. AVOID CORKSCREWS. Movement should start right from the base of the trunk and the beginning of branches.

from Steven's precis of koji's advice seems simple but I find it is very difficult to get bends really low, even on very young and pliable material (could be my wiring technique?) Avoid Corkscrews - Until you have tried it seems simple but avoiding turning the trunk in the same direction takes a lot of practice. Lots of my first ones turned out to be just that Now I am better at mixing the direction to bend the trunk back along itself sometimes. Same applies to varying the distance between bends. Getting the bends and twists to look random and natural is quite difficult but is slowly coming with practice. I fully expect the latest crop to be far better than these first attempts

Even after all this I think it will be worth the time and effort involved.

I twisted up numerous starters and had them all in a large poly box together, then put several in the ground.

took some photos today.

Ken

Hah, good luck getting the wire off on pic#2! Mind you, its a good start ...

So they say we can do this or should do this with every species or just with Junipers?

I think this is a special branch of Bonsai Elmar. it should be used with species that come from extreme environments - junipers and maybe pines. A maple that was this contorted would just not be right.
It also suits shohin (very small) bonsai where there is little room to fit a trunk and branches so the trunk becomes the attraction and dead wood is a big part of the design.

I'll still be growing most of my trees as trees that actually look like trees, but will still be doing more of these junipers to find out what the technique can offer.

There are some things everyone can take from this though.
1. put exaggerated curves in young trees - reason is that as they grow and thicken the trunk tend to thicken more on the inside of curves and will actually straighten out over the years so make initial curves more pronounced than you think you want.
2. really tight curves and bends close to each other will eventually join up. Be careful or you might end up with an ugly thick lump where there was once a tight curl in the trunk.

CoGRedeMptioN wrote:Hah, good luck getting the wire off on pic#2! Mind you, its a good start ...

So they say we can do this or should do this with every species or just with Junipers?

LOL I think the wire will come out if cut off.
The Wire cutting in will accelerate the thickening anyway so all good

Lie Shibui said, Pines and Junis shoud be fine and Steven I knwo has many a casuarina bent and twisted too

Ken

kcpoole wrote:...
Like Shibui said, Pines and Junis shoud be fine and Steven I know, has many a casuarina bent and twisted too

Ken

Funny but I was thinking Casuarinas!

Excellent thread! Looks like I'll be getting a few young ones on the weekend!

kcpoole wrote:The Wire cutting in will accelerate the thickening anyway so all good

I look at the wire marks cutting into juni's often and it turns me off badly. I completely understands that it increases the rate at which the trunk thickens at, but how long does it take for the scars disappear once the wire is removed? I see some that are so thick and deap they look like they will never heal. Or are Juniper's and even pines faster healers at this?

Pearcy001 wrote: I look at the wire marks cutting into juni's often and it turns me off badly. I completely understands that it increases the rate at which the trunk thickens at, but how long does it take for the scars disappear once the wire is removed? I see some that are so thick and deap they look like they will never heal. Or are Juniper's and even pines faster healers at this?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it common practice at bonsai nurseries to leave wire on some trees permanently to give it the girth?

Jarad wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it common practice at bonsai nurseries to leave wire on some trees permanently to give it the girth?

I don't think its 'common practise', it is certainly a technique used by some, but the long term results are debatable, as was discussed in this recent thread regarding pines.

viewtopic.php?f=138&t=19630

Pearcy001 wrote:

kcpoole wrote:The Wire cutting in will accelerate the thickening anyway so all good

I look at the wire marks cutting into juni's often and it turns me off badly. I completely understands that it increases the rate at which the trunk thickens at, but how long does it take for the scars disappear once the wire is removed? I see some that are so thick and deap they look like they will never heal. Or are Juniper's and even pines faster healers at this?

Actually Juni's can heal pretty quick provided they're healthy and strong. Only issue is if the scar is deep enough it would heal with a permanent scar (though depending how it heals it may not be too bad).

I still prefer not to leave wire on Juni's long enough for it to bite in (unless I'm going to Jin the branch in the future in which case it makes for an interesting dead wood texture).

Cheers,
Mo


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