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Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 6th, 2011, 8:40 pm
by siddhar
Velvet take my advise mate. In the last 2 years I've learnt more about Bonsai in that time than in my previous 4 years. Get your hands on some decent raw material
You dont have to spend a silly amount. If you were to buy an advanced tree from someone who knows their art-form.. A Japanese maple for instance.. when looking at an advanced tree, say 10 yrs old with branch structure and ramification could range from around $150- $350.
A Japanese Black Pine that sits in a similar window of development should retail for around the $250- $350 mark. Now dont quote me, but I've noted prices of many trees and I know that this is what newbies would expect to pay. A relative comparison of a similar tree, developed by someone with a basic understanding of developing Bonsai trees from raw material would soon realise that Bonsai doesn't have to cost this much!
What I've learnt when looking for potential Bonsai stock or looking at adding another tree to my collection: If I were to pay $150-$250 for a raw material JBP, with that investment I am guaranteed full control over tree as far as its future styling is concerned. That being said in two years time my $150 investment would easily be scratching around the $400- $500 mark when compared to the same tree at a Bonsai nursery.
So again do we grow trees from seed? Yes, but dont expect to be happy with your seed stock until the tree and your investment time is around the 5- 10 yrs of age mark, heavily ramified and not just used as another experiment in developing your skills as a Bonsai hobbyist. In closing, dont kid yourself newbies.. you need to understand Bonsai as a whole before your investments will exceed your visions for them. Something the more experienced in the field should spell out for the newbies from the very beginning
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 6th, 2011, 9:23 pm
by Andrew F
siddhar wrote:Velvet take my advise mate. In the last 2 years I've learnt more about Bonsai in that time than in my previous 4 years. Get your hands on some decent raw material
You dont have to spend a silly amount. If you were to buy an advanced tree from someone who knows their art-form.. A Japanese maple for instance.. when looking at an advanced tree, say 10 yrs old with branch structure and ramification could range from around $150- $350.
A Japanese Black Pine that sits in a similar window of development around the $250- $450 mark. Now dont quote me, but I've noted prices of many trees and I know this is what newbies would expect to pay. A relative comparison of a similar tree, developed by someone with a basic understanding of what makes a good Bonsai.
What I've learnt when looking for potential Bonsai stock or looking at adding another tree to my collection: If I were to pay $150-$250 for a raw material JBP, with that investment I am guaranteed full control over tree as far as its future styling is concerned. That being said in two years time my $150 investment would easily be scratching around the $400- $500 mark when compared to the same tree at a Bonsai nursery.
So again do we grow trees from seed? Yes, but dont expect to be happy with your seed stock until the tree and your investment is around the 5- 10 yrs of age mark, heavily ramified and not just used as another experiment in developing your skills as a Bonsai hobbyist. In closing, dont kid yourself newbies.. you need to understand Bonsai as whole before your investments will exceed your visions for them. Something the more experienced in the field should spell out for the newbies from the very beginning
Thanks for taking the time to write that up Sid, I prefer working from raw untrained nursery stock, if possible.
Also money doesnt play a factor in bonsai because its a hobby for me not an investment. My return is my nephew inheriting some half decent trees and making it a tradition amongst our family.
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 12th, 2011, 6:09 pm
by Luke308
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 12th, 2011, 6:35 pm
by Hornet
Deff not permitted, just slipped through. Alot does, even animals make it through regulary
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 12th, 2011, 8:09 pm
by Scott Roxburgh
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 12th, 2011, 8:28 pm
by Luke308
Scott Roxburgh wrote:
Im not sure what your face palm is in reference too, maybe you could elaborate with a comment???
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 12th, 2011, 8:29 pm
by Hornet
Probably not the best idea to promote the illegal importation of seed
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 12th, 2011, 8:48 pm
by Luke308
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds
Postby Dumper ยป June 17th, 2011, 4:15 am
there is a quarantine law for importing any seeds or plants
depends on where u get it from. some might be impossible. some might be fine
first you will need to check australian database
http://www.aqis.gov.au/icon32/asp/ex_querycontent.asp
usually. australia has a good terms with UK. so seeds from UK will be easier to get it.
I've bought some jbp seeds from uk (ebay) and they all came thru.
On uk side. they will do some fotosanitary form (i dont know if i got the form name right but something like that) to claim that the seeds is good and no pest or nasties.
Seeds u dont need a permit to order. just as long as u pass those requirement.
for plants. u will need import permits. yada yada yada yada never ends.
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 12th, 2011, 9:12 pm
by Bretts
Commodity: Pinus spp.
Scientific name:
Synonyms: Show Synonyms
Other Pinus spp., Pine Seed, Pines, Pinus spp. as listed
Country: All countries excluding: Chile; Haiti; Honduras; Iraq; Italy; Japan; Korea, Democratic Peoples Republic (North Korea); Korea, Republic Of (South Korea); Mexico; New Zealand; Philippines; Portugal; South Africa, Republic Of; Spain; Tanzania; United States of America; Uruguay
End use: Seeds for sowing
Date printed: Dec 12 2011
This is telling you the countries that you
can not import from
Species listing for Pinus spp.
See Table 1 for a list of species that are permitted entry.
Note: Any species not listed in these tables are prohibited entry into Australia by legislation and require assessment.
Table 1: List of Permitted Species. These species may be imported subject to the conditions C9072.
Pinus banksiana
Pinus brutia
Pinus caribaea var. honduriensis
Pinus cembra
Pinus densiflora
Pinus greggii
Pinus larix
Pinus mugo
Pinus muricata
Pinus nigra
Pinus patula
Pinus pinaster
Pinus pinea
Pinus ponderosa
Pinus radiata
Pinus sylvestris
This is stating what species
can be imported, note there is no Pinus thunbergii listed which means it can not be imported from any country.
Seed and nursery stock have been assessed as posing a serious disease risk (Pitch canker)
It can be confusing but once you get it, you get it. A call to aqis is a simpkle fix if you are unsure. Many seeds are easy to import in small numbers but JBP is not one of them.
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 12th, 2011, 9:44 pm
by Luke308
Please dont think I was promoting illegally importing seeds. I was unaware they were illegal. I asked the seller, and they told me they only sold seeds into Australia that are
legal. I read
dumper's post and he said that seeds from the UK are legal (well that was how I read it), and he said the seller had to fill out the appropriate paperwork their end which I asked the ebay seller to make sure they did. I misread
Country: All countries excluding: Chile; Haiti; Honduras; Iraq; Italy; Japan; Korea, Democratic Peoples Republic (North Korea); Korea, Republic Of (South Korea); Mexico; New Zealand; Philippines; Portugal; South Africa, Republic Of; Spain; Tanzania; United States of America; Uruguay
I thought it was saying that it was okay to get seeds from other countries besides those. Obviously I have done something wrong here, and I apologise if it seems I was bragging or promoting it in any way. I wasn't 100% sure it was legal, but I had confidence in the seller by them stating that they only sold seeds that are legal to be shipped to Australia, and that they are clearly labelled with botanical names. In this post and others, I have read people comment that if someone finds JBP seeds to share their source. After all that is what this forum is about, sharing. This is all I was intending to do, not promote illegal activity. Once again, I apologise.
I would be happy for the moderators to delete this thread all together, or at least the posts I have made tonight. The last thing I want is to put Australian flora at risk for the sake of some seeds that might not even grow.
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 12th, 2011, 11:02 pm
by Hornet
it was made quite clear (so i thought) earlier in this thread that the importation of JBP seeds without the relevent permits was illegal
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 12th, 2011, 11:09 pm
by Bretts
Luke like I siad the data base is very confusing at first. I myself misread it the first time I went there. I was lucky enough that when a seed buy on ebay went bad the experienced seller took the time to call me on the phone and in the long chat we had he took me through how to use the data base.
He also assured me the mistake that I made was very unlikely to actually pose any threat.
If it was not for some one breaking the rules some years back we would not have seiju elm in Australia but the risks are real so it can only be siad the best policy is to follow the procedures that the powers that be set out.
I think the best we can do is use our mistakes to educate others of the correct way to do things
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 13th, 2011, 6:19 am
by Luke308
Hornet wrote:it was made quite clear (so i thought) earlier in this thread that the importation of JBP seeds without the relevent permits was illegal
I had already ordered the seeds before starting this thread. And it seems a little confusing even now reading it again, especially if you've read dumper's post in the other thread. Anyway, whats done is done, I feel bad about it, and certainly wont be doing it again. If anyone else is thinking about trying to order these seeds, please don't, its just not worth it!!!!
Re: Japanese Black Pine Seeds from ebay
Posted: December 13th, 2011, 6:21 am
by Luke308
Bretts wrote: I think the best we can do is use our mistakes to educate others of the correct way to do things
I agree
