How do you price your trees.

[DavidN]

Thanks for the replies so far. Please people you don't need to be humble about this. I want you to be vicious actually. Be totally honest about if you saw this what would you REALLY pay for it. Trust me if I could get $2500 I would have jumped at the chance. That's maybe what it would be WORTH but not what you would pay for it. I guess this kind of opens up the idea that even though a tree might be worth a certain amount, the actual sell price is really determined by the market.

BTW the last photo of the cedar was actually the BEFORE shot. I didn't get an after shot unfortunately. Will have to take one of how it is in the coming days.

Thanks so far to the respondants.

This is going to be interesting

David

[Dave54]

Hi David,
If you sell that Cedar for under $2000, you are selling yourself short.
Having said that, it is like selling a house, The best value is usually at the top end because there are less buyers and they bargain hard in that higher bracket.
Even though age and care is hard to factor in, the question of replacement quality and age needs to be.
With the right purchaser $3000-$4000 would not be out of the question, but if someone doesn't like it, the value drops to zero.
As I always maintain, the seller can set the PRICE by whatever age and care criteria he wishes, but the VALUE of the tree is put on by the buyer. One may think a tree is worth any figure at all, but if it's not worth that to the purchaser, the formula is out the window!!
cheer
Dave
PS Hi Steve,
I forgot to mention I was only joking about the $500 Fig...worth much more!!! That was the point of my posting.

[Brad Loma]

Hi Brad,
The Cedar Deodara shown below I have had in my collection for about 8 years (I think). I purchased from a well known Bonsai collector in country Victoria and it she claims it was container grown for about 25-30 years. I haven’t changed the shape too much and have attempted to bring the branches down and further develop the foliage pads.

In 2007 AABC convention Marco helped me make some styling changes to this tree. Does his work on the tree add value?

Here are my thoughts on the how I priced this tree when I attempted to sell it:

Factors that influenced the price:
- Initial cost of material 8 years ago affected the price.
- Period taken to develop the tree - Cedars are slow growing in terms of creating foliage pads and setting branches in place. A 40+ year old cedar must be factored into when setting a price.
- All design aspects must be considered. For this tree the age of the tree is a huge factor as well as the ramification, trunk, nebari etc which really is about the age of the tree and how long it has been a ‘Bonsai’. How long it has been in a pot and styled for plays a big part too.
- In comparison I haven’t seen too many Cedars like this around with the ramification and age of this.
- Foliage is compact and small.
- Overall the refinement of a cedar to this level takes a long time I believe.
- Marco was involved in styling this tree.

Photos were from AABC 2007. Will attempt to get another photo in the coming weekend. It has filled out more.

I have purposely not stated the price I had on it at the Sale which was in 2007. Anyone would like to attempt to price this? To the BNW members who remember seeing this and the price, please refrain from answering

David

Ok....i am considering that the branches have been brought down further then the pictures shown, as i think that will present a much better picture as well as a feeling of age. The pictures now, show a young tree with taper and almost horizontal branching. Given the tree has what appears to be good ramification and in excellent health and quite a pleasing feminine, graceful look to it. I dont have access to this material here in Queensland so i have contacted two Sydney nurseries and one Vic nursery and made enquiries as to how much they retail for (as raw material), i asked for a price on a Cedar Deodara, aproximately 75 - 80 cm tall with little movement that i could create a similar type tree and a possible trunk of around 6 - 7 cm and completely raw material. Nursery one (NSW) suggested around $75 and nursery two(NSW) suggested around $80 and the other (VIC) nursery only had semi trained in that size and was $160. I would think that this tree could be developed within 8 years and would have a bit more thickness to it by then. For this purpose i will use a figure of $130 for the initial material. Add $80 for a pot and if i was to use a conservative figure as i have for my tree of $40 per year for consumables i would come up with around $450 to start with. Further to this i have looked at the tree and considered that it does have a certain appeal to it which i like, so for my estimate i would say between $800 - $1000 would be the maximum i would go to.
Thanks for your interest in this exercise David, HOW DID I GO! I do hope it was within your expectations and not an insult.

B.

[DavidN]

Brad,
I actually have had two prices on this tree. An initial price and then a clearance price. I'll let others have a go as well before telling you.

David

[Brad Loma]

No worries David, thanks very much.
B.

[anttal63]

come on dave where's your recent photo?

[Bretts]

Brad you may remember that when you stated the raw stock for your swampy was at around $500 I stated I would look around Sydney to see what I could find to compare. I lucked out and found some trees at Bonsai South that would come very close to your dimensions (without the width of your root knot ) I may even say better? for $175. I also found some smaller ones at $45 and $95 that will make very nice trees.
I have always wanted one of these and grabbed a $45 one that I liked.
$175

swamp1.jpg

$45 and $95

swamp2.jpg

The one I brought home

swamp3.jpg

[Brad Loma]

Brad you may remember that when you stated the raw stock for your swampy was at around $500

No Brett i never stated that the raw stock for this tree was $500 mate, $500 was your estimate as to its value as you seen it in the post you are refering to. You even reiterated it with me and i confirmed that, yes that was what i thought you suggested, it was your estimate.

You said in response to my post: "An actual price Brad? Is hard for me because although I am after one of these I am after a classic styled one with even root base but I will throw $500 out there because it is a refined tree that some may like with little refinement."
Then you reiterated: "Just to clarify Brad the $500 was for your tree"
To which i responded:"Yes, thats what i thought you suggested."
The thread can be read here, viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1470&hilit=%24500&start=30

The raw material for this tree, today would be around $100 - $130 i would imagine. But maybe it would be a little shorter perhaps. But close enough.

B.

[Bretts]

If I was looking at this tree, based on the picture I would think 450-550 would be a fair price, considering the price of the raw material, time, pot...
One thing I forgot to make a mention (without sounding harsh) is if I couldn't fault your tree I would consider around 700-800 to being a fair price based on the maturity of the material shown...

Spot on eliast...$700 is the value i placed on it. Well done and thanks for participating.
B.

he said if he couldn't fault it

450 - 550 wouldnt buy you the raw materials, keep it real. I hope you are as cheap with your own material, if so, keep me in mind if and when you want to sell anything!
B.

Brad
450 - 550 wouldnt buy you the raw materials, keep it real.

Brad I am pretty sure I could source material for that tree at around $100 depending on the size if you would like to give me dimensions i will get some proof when I get to the city.

The dimensions are in the post Brett.

[Brad Loma]

Brett, i dont want to start debating this with you, but i will explain what this was refered to. $40 per year for all consumables used x 10 years = $400, One pot for $80 + the raw material = You work it out mate.
B

[Bretts]

Maybe you should have explained that back when you said that the raw material for this was $500 and I said I could find it for $100. It would have saved me the trouble if you agreed that is what this raw material is worth. It is funny that after all this discussion about initial cost and everything you have never put a cost on the raw stock until now. I don't think I would factor in the cost of petrol and servicing that someone spent on a car before I bought it.

[Brad Loma]

Maybe you should have explained that back when you said that the raw material for this was $500 and I said I could find it for $100. It would have saved me the trouble if you agreed that is what this raw material is worth. It is funny that after all this discussion about initial cost and everything you have never put a cost on the raw stock until now. I don't think I would factor in the cost of petrol and servicing that someone spent on a car before I bought it.

I am sorry for the miss-communication Brett. I did say raw materials, not raw material. Singular as opposed to multiple.
B.

[Bretts]

I would think raw materials would relate to the pot and tree not the soil you put in the thing while enjoying it over the last 10 years.

[DavidN]

Hey Tony,
I haven't had a chance to take a photo yet. Weekend most likely though as my 7 month old girl has been very sick the last few days.

David

[DavidN]

Since interest in this topic seems to have wained, my initial price on the Cedar was actually $1500 at the show in May 2008. I think later in the year I dropped the price to $900. No takers at all and re-thought my idea on selling the tree. Guess the market I was in wasn't really after that kind of tree. Brad you are pretty much spot on.

David