Potters techniques discussed

[mudlarkpottery]

I have just realized that nurserymen/growers have a copyright/trademark on the new hybrids being produced now. This stops unscrupulous people buying a plant then taking cuttings or spliting rhizomes and selling the new plants, taking advantage of someone else's time and hard work. A friend asked me recently about my Louisiana Iris registrations and the penny dropped so to speak. These seedlings have taken 8 years to get from cross polinating to registration last week. They are not on the market yet.
Penny.

[Bretts]

From Penny
My apologies, Soltan, I didn't know you were a professional nuseryman. I jumped right in with both feet then didn't I

Not a bad cheap shot but I have had worse
I may be nieve to try to convert Potters culture on this. I hope at least you can help me understand this culture as they say if you can't change the world you need to change yourself.
Culture (from the Latin cultura stemming from colere, meaning "to cultivate") generally refers to patterns of human activity and the symbolic structures that give such activities significance and importance. As such, it includes codes of manners, rituals, games, norms of behavior such as law and morality, and systems of belief as well as the art.
While thinking about this I wonderd how much of culture comes from necessity and if it can form for any other reasons?
The surfing culture can be an intresting comparison. While being a famously strange culture to most it is believed to be a nescessity to the surfing faternity. The problem here is that Human nature can often overtake necessity. Only with full understanding of the culture can we find balance. When the culture is not used nievely it is fully functional and I believe a necessity.
I can concentrate on one aspect of the surfing Culture to elaborate.
Over crowding is the biggest fear of any surfer. Hence a culture of keeping surfing spots secret has evolved. The culture works because as you become more experienced you befriend people that let you in on the secret. That way only people who understand the culture get to the best spots. In general anyway
It is all but a written rule that surfers will not make it public knoledge of these secret spots or bear the wrath of the surfing faternity.
The internet has been an intresting challange to this.
It seems the secret techinque culture in pottery is explained as a necessity to protect income. Or possibly it extends further than this?
Are the techniques passed on to only those who have something to give back? Is it an only to my best friends culture?
I can pass it on to you but don't publish this?
Hobby or Business, is it only bussiness potters that have secret techniques?
Is it only trade mark techniques that are kept secret?
Is there any way some one nieve like me can understand what is ok to talk about and what is generally classed as secret knoledge?
Can potters give finished example of some of thier secret techniques?
Is there any example of a technique being exployted in the potting world(not the corparete world) that has caused the owner of the technique to lose bussiness or money?
I hope some frank answers on this will help my understanding.

[Bretts]

By Peter
Soltan, you clearly just dont get it do you! If you were told that a copyright is only permission to go to court, think again and question the advise you are recieving.

This advice was from Robert T. Kiyosaki who I believe to be an inspirational expert in the world of Buissness and I am not the only one. He does copyright his books though.
There may be many corparations who believe they can make money in court but I believe most biussnees people would prefer to stay out of court.
I don't understand why you think there is such a difference between a professional potter and a proffesional Bonsaist. My understanding is there is little money in either. At least that is what they tell us

[PeterW]

This advice was from Robert T. Kiyosaki who I believe to be an inspirational expert in the world of Buissness and I am not the only one. He does copyright his books though.
There may be many corparations who believe they can make money in court but I believe most biussnees people would prefer to stay out of court.
I don't understand why you think there is such a difference between a professional potter and a proffesional Bonsaist. My understanding is there is little money in either. At least that is what they tell us

So you would be free to go out and write a book and call it Rich Dad Poor Dad (or very similar) with the same colours and setout etc and be confident that your advisor, Robert Kiyosaki wouldnt come looking for you or at least his legal representative.
Putting it like that Brett, does it make any sense to you? If not, maybe in a few years time, it will.
All the best
Peter.

[Bretts]

He has the copyright so he has permision to go to court

[mudlarkpottery]

Soltan, I had no intention of taking a shot at you, I simply assumed by your reply - "Sorry to disagree but I am in the business of growing and selling bonsai" - that you were a nurseryman and I was apologising for indicating you weren't. So are you or are you not?
As to the surfing fraternity, I can understand why they are reluctant to divulge secret surfing spots. I wouldn't want my favourite beach inundated by crowds of people, whether they can surf or not. You can't expect everything to be handed to you. Do a bit of legwork, go find a suitable beach yourself. Same with pottery, read books join a local club, experiment like Aaron has.
You never hear of Japanese Bonsai Masters giving out information on their techniques to anyone who asks. First you have to become an apprentice and there are enough articles written about how difficult that is for me to bother repeating here.
If you haven't yet understood about keeping unique or individual techniques private, no amount of explanation on my part will help. You should ask other potters how they view this conundrum. Get several viewpoints which may explain better than I can.
Penny.

[Bretts]

I wouldn't want my favourite beach inundated by crowds of people, whether they can surf or not.

This is the nieve side of the culture. I was nieve when I was young and got the local syndrome and wanted no one to come to my local beach. Then I grew up, I started to travel to other peoples local beaches and I realised how hipacritical I was being. Growth is a beautiful thing.

You can't expect everything to be handed to you. Do a bit of legwork, go find a suitable beach yourself. Same with pottery, read books join a local club, experiment like Aaron has.

I have done all these things.I believe that has been stated. Even if I hadn't, I find it is discouraged to treat "newbies" in the go away and learn for yourself attitude on the bonsai forums.It soon becomes obvious if they are not using thier own brain This is the question I have been asking. Why does it seem that potters culture has not taken this route? Why are you here if not to share information.

You never hear of Japanese Bonsai Masters giving out information on their techniques to anyone who asks. First you have to become an apprentice and there are enough articles written about how difficult that is for me to bother repeating here.

Why must they be Japanese to qualify in this discussion. There are many notable, non-Japanese< Bonsai masters on the forums that give out information to any one who asks. But since you stipulate Japanese maybe you should revisit The World of Bonsai series to see Japanese masters giving away any information they can muster. Specificly the vendors and specilised growers.
http://www.bonsaifarm.tv/content/category/4/15/51/

If you haven't yet understood about keeping unique or individual techniques private, no amount of explanation on my part will help. You should ask other potters how they view this conundrum. Get several viewpoints which may explain better than I can.

Answering a few simple questions would help me a great deal to understand this "conundrum" . This discussion is open to all ofcourse. My apoligies if I am wrong but it seems it is a lack of willingness to explain not a lack of ability. There are some very straight forward questions there I can come to no other conclusion from your lack of response

[mudlarkpottery]

Soltan, read my lips.
I DO give out information freely.
I DON'T give out every single technique or recipe for reasons already stated.
As this is a bonsai website and your query is directed to potters, perhaps you should post it to potters on a ceramics website.
That way you will get more than just my reply.
Penny.

[Bretts]

Can you post an example of a technique that you will not give out.
I would also love to see an example of your finished crack pot!
I have looked for Potters forums and did not find much, do you have any in mind?

[Spinner]

Hi Soltan, you might find this site useful. http://www.bigceramicstore.com/Information/Tips.htm

Spinner

[Bretts]

Thats a great Site Thanks.
I am not a big fan of the "Groups" type Forums But there is a ambundance of information there. I could not find anything on finishes yet wich is probably what I am most intrested in. I am happy to use a general array of glazes. I am very intrested in different textural finishes wich I could not find there.
Maybe as I look through the many links from this I will find more about textures.
Thanks

[Spinner]

OK....try this one; http://www.potters.org/categories.htm

[Bretts]

Thanks
I did get to that link and I was very suprised to find every subject coverd except for clay texture finishes(or subject to that effect)
Maybe it is there some where But I have not found it yet

[mudlarkpottery]

I have been told clayart is a good one. I don't have time to investigate these websites at the moment. I subscribe to Ceramics Monthly, you can contact them too . They, also, have a website.
Regarding textures, try pressing soft clay onto interesting bark on trees, letting it dry and firing it to 1000. use this as a mould and do as Aaron did and press interesting rocks into your piece. Most basic pottery books will give you plenty of ideas for texture. Kitchen drawers are a good source of texturing tools.
Penny.

[Asus101]

http://www.potters.org/subject99452.htm
Try that solt.