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Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: March 20th, 2011, 1:08 pm
by FlyBri
kcpoole wrote:I notice that a few leaves have little "Bubbles" on them. Any idea what this is?
Gday Ken!
Hursty_Euc_0311_07.jpg
Hursty_Euc_0311_08.jpg
Mrs Fly assures me that they are galls of some sort, but she is uncertain which critter has caused them. I noticed that some had holes which I had assumed were caused by the emergence of the critters inside, but she reckons those holes could also have been made by other parasitic insects.

Sorry I can't be more specific or helpful. :oops:

Fly.

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: March 20th, 2011, 3:24 pm
by kcpoole
OK thanks Fly
Maybe someone else will chip in with the answer

Ken

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: March 21st, 2011, 6:34 am
by lennard

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: March 21st, 2011, 12:03 pm
by kcpoole
Thanks Lennard
Probably right as lots on mine seem to have opened
I will just remove any leaves showing signs, but as I am surrounded by Eucs, I doubt I can be rid of them

Ken

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: March 21st, 2011, 12:37 pm
by MattA
Hey Fly,

This is really starting to come along nice.. i really like the hollow trunk (very reminiscent of a tree burnt out by fire only to come back time & time again. Does the hollow extends up to the uro between the first & second branches or is that part of your future plans?
kcpoole wrote:Thanks Lennard
Probably right as lots on mine seem to have opened
I will just remove any leaves showing signs, but as I am surrounded by Eucs, I doubt I can be rid of them

Ken
By all means remove the leaves if the galls bother you but in my experience they have no real effect on the health or vigour of my eucs so i just let them be, they look a bit ugly but I accept it as part of there natural cycle.

Pyrethrum would most likely be effective in preventing the galls if you know when the eggs are laid & keep the tree sprayed during that period.

Matt

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: March 21st, 2011, 8:37 pm
by FlyBri
MattA wrote:Does the hollow extends up to the uro between the first & second branches or is that part of your future plans?
Gday Matt!

The hollow is an extension of a large hole on the upper back of the tree, and the uro you mention is attached in turn to that. The tree is essentially completely hollow now, thanks largely to the chop-and-grow treatment it received before I collected it.
Hursty_Euc_0311_09.jpg

MattA wrote:
kcpoole wrote:Thanks Lennard
Probably right as lots on mine seem to have opened
I will just remove any leaves showing signs, but as I am surrounded by Eucs, I doubt I can be rid of them

Ken
By all means remove the leaves if the galls bother you but in my experience they have no real effect on the health or vigour of my eucs so i just let them be, they look a bit ugly but I accept it as part of there natural cycle.

Pyrethrum would most likely be effective in preventing the galls if you know when the eggs are laid & keep the tree sprayed during that period.

Matt
I am likewise unconcerned about the galls, as the leaves seem to still perform their function(s) perfectly well with the galls in place. Like Ken, I am surrounded by Eucs (mostly Red Box (E. polyanthemos)) which have been plagued by lerps (Psyllid species, I think) for most of the year, so I am happy if the galls are the worst pest infestation I get. It's not as if I'm likely to ever show my trees anyway, so what does it matter what the leaves look like?.. I suppose viruses could be an issue in future, but with a pest like this, the damage would be done well before I could know that I needed to take action.

Thanks all!

Fly.

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: March 21st, 2011, 9:48 pm
by MattA
The hollow is an extension of a large hole on the upper back of the tree, and the uro you mention is attached in turn to that. The tree is essentially completely hollow now, thanks largely to the chop-and-grow treatment it received before I collected it.
That completes the giant gnarled old gum image for me...

:worship: that old lady for hacking it to bits as long as she did :lol:

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: April 27th, 2011, 12:15 pm
by FlyBri
MattA wrote: :worship: that old lady for hacking it to bits as long as she did :lol:
I hear ya, Matt!

Well, it is probably not the best time of year to repot a Euc, but it is far from being the worst time. The story of my Eucs and their soil requirements is becoming quite familiar now, so rather than write another essay, please allow me to quote from my E. meliodora thread:
Despite our wet Spring/Summer/Autumn, growth on this one had virtually come to a standstill since the last update. Jarrod and I discussed this issue recently, and we speculated that the Summer may not have been warm enough for the Oz native plants to grow properly, yet I observed massive growth on ground-grown Eucalypts in my area. So, I turned my attention to the roots of this one to see what was going on...

I am beginning to suspect that I have made some serious errors in terms of my potting mixes of late: I had already concluded that the addition of sphagnum was a mistake, as the small particles prevented water and air from penetrating the soil. It appeared that there were still some remnant bits of sphagnum in the soil of this tree, but the problem was compounded by the abundance of small particles (under about 2mm) of organic matter, sand, attapulgite and vermiculite. These had all compressed over time to create a big block of semi-permeable dirt, which was clearly not ideal for growing Bonsai in. (Of course, a percentage of the small particles had appeared by way of natural decomposition, but most were there because of laziness and me not paying heed to what I had learned many years ago... :oops: )

As has been discussed on AB.c numerous times before, the general consensus is that a healthy root system requires not only water, but also air in order to thrive. Small particles in a Bonsai soil can slow water uptake, and therefore limit air penetration. If this continues for too long, the entire structure of the soil can be altered to such a point as to be useless.

When I first got into Bonsai via Internet Forums, the importance of sifting one's soil mix was paramount. Mrs Fly gave me a soil sieve with various screens from 2-3mm up to 8-10mm, and I used it religiously when sifting (at the time) general purpose potting mix and gravel. Then at some point, I took heed of a counter-claim that it was not at all important to sift Bonsai soil so long as one's trees were properly watered. That's when I stopped being so vigilant about sifting my mixes, believing that I knew how to water my trees "properly". (However, the "proper" way to water one's Bonsai is almost entirely dependent on the soil mix, so it is a two-way street.) Looking back now, I see that many of my trees - including this one - were more vigorous back then.

So, I decided to sift the soil from this one in order to open up the mix and get the roots back into order. I removed all particles under 2-3mm, which was quite a few handfuls. Interestingly, the effect on the overall potted volume was almost negligible (and I'm excited about how much air/water space I've freed up).
Here it is, with about 15 modified skewers bashed into the base (not shown here), repotted, trimmed and ready for some massive growth:
Hursty_Euc_0411_01.jpg
Hursty_Euc_0411_02.jpg
More to follow...

Thanks.

Fly.

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: April 29th, 2011, 3:57 pm
by Roger
Fly
A wonderful euc, and great development sequence. Doing well in expert hands.

Is it a yellow box?

Roger

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: April 29th, 2011, 6:47 pm
by FlyBri
Gday Roger!

I'm glad you're enjoying it! It is on the way to being one of my favourites, and it has by far the biggest base of any Euc I have in captivity. I'm constantly surprised at its ability to cope with the punishment I deal out.
Roger wrote:Is it a yellow box?
Good question: Yellow Box (E.meliodora) would be a good initial guess, given that we have some rippers in the area, not far from where this was dug. The foliage is highly variable on this tree, and at the best of times it resembles (immature) Yellow Box foliage, and at the worst the leaves are like big, lop-sided diamond shapes. What really throws me is the bark: from my observations, Yellow Box bark generally sheds in thin, fibrous sheets, whereas this one sheds its bark in thick, irregular chunks - not unlike a mature River Red Gum (E. camaldulensis). Also, the underlying bark seems more "elephantine" than I would expect from a Yellow Box (which makes me think of River Reds again)...

In short, I have no idea. :|

Thanks!

FlyBri.

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: December 30th, 2011, 11:13 am
by FlyBri
FlyBri wrote:Well, it is probably not the best time of year to repot a Euc, but it is far from being the worst time.
Oh really? How confident I was in my youth... :oops:
Hursty_Euc_1211_01.jpg
Hursty_Euc_1211_02.jpg
As it turns out, a number of factors have conspired to cause the dieback of the upper portion of the trunk. (Possibly not a bad thing, given how ugly and bulbous that section was.) I reckon timing was an issue here, combined with weak upper growth and - I suspect - a collapsed soil structure. The tub is much heavier than it should be, and the trunk is wobbling around a bit. The new growth is OK, but I think I'll do a gentle repot today to see if I can restore some of the tree's former vigour.

Updates to follow.

Thanks!

Fly.

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: December 30th, 2011, 3:54 pm
by Dario
Sorry to hear this Fly :cry:
I really like this Euc and I guess I will find out in the updates to come if you get a new shoot in a good spot to regrow a new apex, and how you develop the it from here.
Good luck with restoring its vigour...did the hailstorm also affect this tree?
Cheers, Dario.

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: December 31st, 2011, 9:52 am
by kcpoole
The story continues thru its twists and turns.
I liked that top section fly, and is a pity you lost it I reckon :-(. I love the Carved section now, Has a wonderful grey aged look now :yes:

Ken

Re: Collected Euc: Suburban Yamadori

Posted: December 31st, 2011, 11:22 am
by FlyBri
Dario wrote:I really like this Euc and I guess I will find out in the updates to come if you get a new shoot in a good spot to regrow a new apex, and how you develop the it from here.
Good luck with restoring its vigour...did the hailstorm also affect this tree?
Gday Dario!

The hailstorm broke/bent a few little twigs, but nothing like I had expected.
kcpoole wrote:The story continues thru its twists and turns.
I liked that top section fly, and is a pity you lost it I reckon :-(. I love the Carved section now, Has a wonderful grey aged look now :yes:
Gday Ken!

I'm hoping that my carelessness will result in a better tree in the long term, but who knows?..

* * *

You would think I would know better by now, given all my harping-on about the importance of well-drained, well-aerated soil mixes, but...

It turns out that I had mulched the soil mix with a layer of Chandler's, which is not a bad thing in itself. However, if the 1-2cm layer of kitty litter is unsifted (and probably the stuff from the bottom of the bag, by the looks of it) problems can arise. While 99% of the soil I excavated was in great shape, the Chandler's had formed an almost impenetrable crust on the top of the soil, which was impeding the flow of water (and therefore, air) to the roots. The roots were growing, but not at the skewer sites, and not nearly as vigorously as I would expect after 8-9 months (including a very wet Spring/Summer).

In short, I suspect that my soil was the main culprit in the dieback of the apex, but I would be hesitant to repot again so late in the season.

Anyway, here are the latest photos:
Hursty_Euc_1211_03.jpg
Hursty_Euc_1211_04.jpg
I've roughly wired the RH branch up unto a position where it might form a new apex, and cut back each branchlet to 1 set of leaves in the hopes of inducing massive back-budding. I've also drilled out a rotted branch stump low on the trunk, and am considering stuffing the hollow with sphagnum to see if constant moisture and creepy-crawlies might help me achieve a more natural looking bit of deadwood.

After my predictions in April, I'll try to refrain from making any absolute statements about the future of this tree... :|

Thanks all!

Fly.