AusBonsai

Asus101 wrote:Interesting thing I found on maidenwell.
I have heard some people don't like it because it doesn't release the moisture it takes up.

Law of Conservation of Mass...... Where does it go? lol

I am having great success with maidenwell so far. But i have not tried it straight on anything.

Ken, I heard that Kenn (from the SOB) and you have been conversing about inorganic mixes too. I have had many long conversations with him about it from the beginning of this year (when he was telling me not to use it and that it would kill my trees) till now. On Thursday, i gave him a bucket full of an inorganic mix that I'm currently testing. It has diatomite, sand, zeolite and scoria in it.

Has anybody seen this fired clay product i referred to earlier? The balls seemed about 3 - 6mm in diameter.

P.S. Are you coming tomorrow Ken?

JayC

Jay diatomite soaks up liquid Because it soaks up liquid so well ts been used for kitty litter for soaking up urine, and in mechanic shops to soak up oil.
If you have ever had a cat, you will know it simply soaks it up and stores it.
A guy down in Melbourne called Man Van Nguyen was telling a club member that since using the product plant health has declined. A number of my own club members have found the same.
A large number of people in the SA orchid Society have been going back to zeolite as an additive instead of diatomite.
If you had time, try experimenting. Allow a cup of water to be soaked up. place the Dia. in double layered plastic container, the middle layer will need holes. You want the water to filter out without being soaked up again. Se what the results are in a few days time.

Those clay round red balls are used in hydroponics. They are used to filter the water i believe, not to soak any up. Go to any shady suburb and you should find bags of it dumped in back streets from all the weed growers.

If you want to try a product, next time your in bunnings, check the specialty soils section. There is a soil made for aqua plants that in non organic. aquagro i think the maker is called. About $11 a bag.

looking at the soils and additives, best price is zeolite at 13$ for a 20kg bag.

Asus101 wrote:Jay diatomite soaks up liquid Because it soaks up liquid so well ts been used for kitty litter for soaking up urine, and in mechanic shops to soak up oil.
If you have ever had a cat, you will know it simply soaks it up and stores it.
A guy down in Melbourne called Man Van Nguyen was telling a club member that since using the product plant health has declined. A number of my own club members have found the same.
A large number of people in the SA orchid Society have been going back to zeolite as an additive instead of diatomite.
If you had time, try experimenting. Allow a cup of water to be soaked up. place the Dia. in double layered plastic container, the middle layer will need holes. You want the water to filter out without being soaked up again. Se what the results are in a few days time.

Those clay round red balls are used in hydroponics. They are used to filter the water i believe, not to soak any up. Go to any shady suburb and you should find bags of it dumped in back streets from all the weed growers.

If you want to try a product, next time your in bunnings, check the specialty soils section. There is a soil made for aqua plants that in non organic. aquagro i think the maker is called. About $11 a bag.

looking at the soils and additives, best price is zeolite at 13$ for a 20kg bag.

I have noticed my plants increased in health when trying this soil. I am, however, watering more frequently, and fertilizing twice to 3 times more often.

I realize it soaks up water.....my point is the water doesn't disappear. I think some gets locked into the molecules lattics when you first water, but after that its fine. The water slowly releases back into the roots. The thing is, roots actually "suck" water in through passive transport. It does not require energy, its just osmotic pressure. Basically, the salts in the roots of the tree are getting diluted by the outside clean water. If the outside water is salty, the water comes out of the roots and they "burn". Anyway, the point is that the product does not need to just ooze out water after half a day, for example, but store it in a position where it is avaliable to the roots.

If i was having trouble with plant health slowly declining from inorganics, id use more organic ferts and more water.

ALso, the clay balls i mentioned were seen at an orchid nursery, for growing orchids in pots. The man i talked to seem to think that his plants health greatly increased when planted in the stuff, and told me i should be able to pick up a large bag of it for really cheap at bunnings. He showed me a few orchids that were planted the same time; some in chunky pine bark, some in this clay stuff. The results confirmed my suspicion; the ones in the clay balls had far more rgowth, and were in better health.

I realize orchids are different to bonsai, in that they require more water. But, thats why id suggest they water more frequently.

JayC

jay you are absolutely correct and if people are experiencing different they are not using diatamite correctly. in melbourne it actually needs more frequent watering.

So if you need to water more and use more fert, then why use the product? Why not use something else?
Daitomite doesn't return back that which it takes up, hence you use more fertilizer and more water.
Akadama and zeolite on the other hand return back to the plant , that which it takes up.

ace you da man each to their own.

Asus101 wrote:So if you need to water more and use more fert, then why use the product? Why not use something else?
Daitomite doesn't return back that which it takes up, hence you use more fertilizer and more water.
Akadama and zeolite on the other hand return back to the plant , that which it takes up.

You use it (or at least, i use it) because you get greater plant growth/health, which leads to less disease, faster development etc.

You still haven't explained it, where does the water and ferts go? They turn to gas and float off? Things cannot disappear. If i learnt anything from high school chem, its that whatever goes into a reaction, comes out in some form. If it is not reacting, or changing state, its the same (still there). Do you think its evaporating underground? Where are you getting this info from? Thanks!

JayC

JayC. wrote:

Asus101 wrote:
P.S. Are you coming tomorrow Ken?

JayC

Yes I will be there with Beels on

Will have my label on and if i remeber will bring some Maidenwell with me

See ya there after all this time

Ps for those not in the School, It is our school christmas party / lunch tomoorow ( Sunday)
Like all school functions, Hosted at Ray Nesci's Nursery.
It is our chance to all get together from Each of the different days and chew the fat
Hey maybe you, (Jay ) and Me can get a photo togethere and post here


Ken

Gday folks!

Recently, a friend scanned a copy of an article titled The Horticultural Aspects Of Australian Native Plants, by Dorothy Koreshoff (Bonsai Australis magazine, #3 1993). In the article, Mrs Koreshoff goes into detail about how Bonsai soil works, and what traits are required for healthy (Oz native) plant growth.

Dorothy Koreshoff wrote:...despite any particular condition that prevailed in the original habitat, the requirements change when grown (in any type of conatiner) above the ground. Thus horticulture is simplified, basically, if one ensure that:

(a) air is able to reach the roots at night; and

(b) there is free not locked water (some water is held too tightly by fine particles to be of use) which is able to be absorbed by the roots during the day...

She goes on to describe her Bonsai mix, which consists of crushed stone (2-5mm) and cow manure (humus), mixed at a rate of "four units of stone to one of humus". Now, this is a much simpler soil than described in Bonsai With Australian Native Plants, and as such, I thought I'd give it a go (with a few tweaks to allow for my local conditions and availability of ingredients).

Here's the analogous mix I came up with, using only ingredients at hand:

12 parts washed* granitic sand (~2-8mm) and/or crushed basalt (~4-8mm)
2 parts** sphagnum moss (whizzed briefly in a blender with lots of water)
1 part** Dynamic Lifter pellets

I have recently repotted nearly all of my trees (native and non-) into more-or-less this mix, and I don't know if they've ever been happier. Most of my trees are currently in oversized training pots, but as they find their way into Bonsai pots, I may need to remove the larger (~6-8mm) particles.

I'm sorry to have gone off-topic (this is not strictly an inert mix), but I thought it was worth offering up here. I'm happy to move this post to another thread if anybody has any issues with it.

Thanks.

Fly.

* Granitic sand is sold as a topping for pathways and the like. In order for it to compact and harden in such applications, it contains generous amounts of clay. If this clay is not thoroughly washed out (sifting is not sufficient), the mix will turn into something resembling a mud brick, holding unusable moisture and preventing air penetration. Trust me - I know...

** The sphagnum and Dynamic Lifter constitute the 20% humus in the mix, and are my replacement for cow manure.

Thanks for this great input Mr Fly.
Regards
Steven

some of you may have read this. a brilliant article that should be considered just as importantly as the soil you mix.
http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/f59/overwat ... 31601.html

A very interesting read that makes a lot of sense.
Thanks Antonio!

S.

Pup, I'm interested in giving your soil mix a go but do I need a sieve or anything else for the crushed granite or are you able to buy it at 2mm to 4mm ready to go?

I only use baked clay kitty litter for my trees

no organic material at all

All i can say is the root formation beats aka(cloga)dama hands down and you dont have to chisel it off when you go to repot. The stuff just shakes off and actively improves in looks as the years go on.

It can be reused again and again and does not break down

Though i dont think its to be had down under though that expanded clay granuals if small enough are effectively the same sort of thing but they can float a bit from previous experience

apisto wrote:I only use baked clay kitty litter for my trees

no organic material at all

All i can say is the root formation beats aka(cloga)dama hands down and you dont have to chisel it off when you go to repot. The stuff just shakes off and actively improves in looks as the years go on.

It can be reused again and again and does not break down

Though i dont think its to be had down under though that expanded clay granuals if small enough are effectively the same sort of thing but they can float a bit from previous experience

Sounds very much like th Maidenwell Diatomite I use.
Hmm, I need to get some more too as I have nearly run out.