AusBonsai

"No examples on the net to turn a 30cm thick cutting into a bonsai so I have to follow my instincts on this one:"



I think I have almost broken Google searching for examples.

Perhaps we should try and correlate a useful thread, purely on the topic of reducing large trunks with ours and others experiences.

Not sure if it is my title for the thread, but we have had an unusually low rate of responces from our experts on trunk reduction techniques.
Perhaps they prefer to start with better, easier to work stock. Maybe carving such a large stock piece is just not worth it?

Hi Mitchell, Large scale carving work is usually performed on hardwood species such as juniper or apricot. The trouble with attempting these techniques on ficus is the very soft wood will be very difficult to maintain .One of the major advantages of ficus is their ability to heal large wounds quite quickly. This would be the approach I would take. You say you would never soften the lines between the large cutting and the new apex. I would say this could be easily achieved with say a 5 year intensive growing program. While you are doing the strong growing if you root prune correctly the trees will develop some basal flare at the same time.
What you have with your ficus cutting is some great starter material, time and correct growing techniques will turn them into good bonsai.
Craig

craigw60 wrote:Hi Mitchell, Large scale carving work is usually performed on hardwood species such as juniper or apricot. The trouble with attempting these techniques on ficus is the very soft wood will be very difficult to maintain .One of the major advantages of ficus is their ability to heal large wounds quite quickly. This would be the approach I would take. You say you would never soften the lines between the large cutting and the new apex. I would say this could be easily achieved with say a 5 year intensive growing program. While you are doing the strong growing if you root prune correctly the trees will develop some basal flare at the same time.
What you have with your ficus cutting is some great starter material, time and correct growing techniques will turn them into good bonsai.
Craig

Ill quote this for truth.
Figs are tropical, tropical is usually wet and soft wood with wet is usually gone pretty fast. If you want to soften the line you can always add the the trunk itself via different grafting techniques using either direct cutting material/saplings (this last one being the better of the two) or aerial roots.
Doing this however you need high humidity, the results are so much better with it.

Personally I would not have bothered with cutting material from figs, they grow from seed much better and faster with none of the large wounds and taperless features. Taper will not be easy to grow in.

Asus101 wrote: Taper will not be easy to grow in.

Without drastic human intervention it will take a lot of time to build the nebari on a stump like this. You will have to let a few selected roots grow very thick and then you have to cut them back so they could ramificate and then repeat the whole process.

Luckily Ficus are very tough so I believe we could hurry on the process by cutting and bending up the bark and cambium area to help build the taper.
I would only do this when the roots have thicken up a bit.
Mitchell, on your figs I would go with selecting a few strong roots and let them grow freely to help build the nebari and later also they will add to the taper. Grafting as suggested could also help.

Lennard

lennard wrote:

Asus101 wrote: Taper will not be easy to grow in.

Without drastic human intervention it will take a lot of time to build the nebari on a stump like this. You will have to let a few selected roots grow very thick and then you have to cut them back so they could ramificate and then repeat the whole process.

Luckily Ficus are very tough so I believe we could hurry on the process by cutting and bending up the bark and cambium area to help build the taper.
I would only do this when the roots have thicken up a bit.

Image1.jpg

Mitchell, on your figs I would go with selecting a few strong roots and let them grow freely to help build the nebari and later also they will add to the taper. Grafting as suggested could also help.

Lennard

The nebari is workable at the moment, roots are in suitable scale if not in some cases too large. The main issue is trying to blend them to the trunk. Even the biggest roots still have the visible scar between them and the trunk. I think they will blend after time, removing some of the scared edge may assist.

I'm wasn't talking about roots. I was bringing forward the issue of a short very thick cutting with die back at the very top.
I have a few cuttings like this been going for two years and they have not thickened, nor have they started growing out the cut on the top of the "trunk".

From the things I have done with figs I still think seed is the best way to get nice tree's, if you use thick cuttings be ready to take hundreds of cuttings and fuse them to the thick one.
Currently from the photo's they are pretty boring trunks, just like mine. They are just a cylinder growing out of the pot and we need to change this. Best method given to me, was posted in a bonsai focus (about a year after I was given the article, but it means I don't have to rewrite it). You have your stock, you now need your saplings or lanky cuttings. You get them, you lay them against your trunk and braid (small nails)them to the trunk and then wrap them tight. Pot your tree in a much bigger pot, and wire in your branches. Because your using many saplings/cuttings they will all develop at different stages giving you character in your trunk. This will also let you cover those top wounds and form a good apex.

Asus101 wrote:I'm wasn't talking about roots. I was bringing forward the issue of a short very thick cutting with die back at the very top.
I have a few cuttings like this been going for two years and they have not thickened, nor have they started growing out the cut on the top of the "trunk".

From the things I have done with figs I still think seed is the best way to get nice tree's, if you use thick cuttings be ready to take hundreds of cuttings and fuse them to the thick one.
Currently from the photo's they are pretty boring trunks, just like mine. They are just a cylinder growing out of the pot and we need to change this. Best method given to me, was posted in a bonsai focus (about a year after I was given the article, but it means I don't have to rewrite it). You have your stock, you now need your saplings or lanky cuttings. You get them, you lay them against your trunk and braid (small nails)them to the trunk and then wrap them tight. Pot your tree in a much bigger pot, and wire in your branches. Because your using many saplings/cuttings they will all develop at different stages giving you character in your trunk. This will also let you cover those top wounds and form a good apex.

I take it the first paragraph is for Lennard the second for me?

Last night I trimmed back one of the neighbours 40m x 40m fig tree, not sure what it is. Possibly PJ as well. Took about 80 cuttings. I intend on using these as grafting medium, to do exactly what you are suggesting.

Been procrastinating about how to tackle, the flat chop issue on the cuttings.

Decided to give a few a shot today.

This is number 1.

Not a flat top issue, but no taper and way too tall.

Chopped it down to the bottom branch, then carved with a draw knife.

This is 10.

Not finished yet, just having a think where to go next.

that last one is easy mate, use the shoots on top of the right hand branch as a leader then grow out to a low spreading banyan style, you may have to chop back the heavy branching at a later date if they become to heavy or big, and for taper.

jamie

This is 9.

Also not finished yet, just wanted to get a start on diminishing the flat cuts.

Interestingly I uncovered the growth rings, clearly 74.

Jamie wrote:that last one is easy mate, use the shoots on top of the right hand branch as a leader then grow out to a low spreading banyan style, you may have to chop back the heavy branching at a later date if they become to heavy or big, and for taper.

jamie

Yeah, I also had something similar in mind. I only defoliated it a fews weeks ago, all those shoots have buds on them, so it should give me a few options.

Here's an update of #1, got back budding on the trunk, so nipped that heavy leader.

A profuse amount of shoots, which got semi-defoliated last night, i'll wire today.

I take it these are destined to be shohin figs ?
Craigw

All foliage was about a foot above the base, so I had little option than to take this one down to the first branch and start again.

This one is about the only that will become a shohin, the others will be larger trees.