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Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: November 24th, 2010, 1:41 pm
by kcpoole
I Vote for the ones on the right for Osmocote
From my own tests, the performance ( or lack thereof) of akadama does not surprise me
For a Few years now I have been of the opinion that if the Japanese had access to diatomite, they woud be using it instead of Akadama
Ken
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: November 24th, 2010, 4:49 pm
by Grant Bowie
kcpoole wrote:I Vote for the ones on the right for Osmocote
From my own tests, the performance ( or lack thereof) of akadama does not surprise me
For a Few years now I have been of the opinion that if the Japanese had access to diatomite, they woud be using it instead of Akadama
Ken
Hi all,
Yes! the ones on the right of each set are the Osmocote.
The Akadama does not seem to be as good as expected; at least not with these particular seedlings in my climate with my feeding with etc etc etc
Also high levels of gravel in these tests also aren't great.
I will do a spread sheet of the results and observations and keep the tests ongoing for a while yet.
So far the blends with some Diatomite or equivalent, some gravels, some Coco peat seem to do best. I am also using the Pine Bark Mini Nuggets in my experimental blend with my own bonsai at home and they seem fine as well.
And finally obviously I haven't tested all possible components and blends. Thats impossible.
Grant
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: November 25th, 2010, 11:49 am
by NBPCA
Hi all,
Here is a spreadsheet with my observations of the larger Ash seedling growing trial.
Large seedling Growing media test results 25Nov 2010 PDF.pdf
Virtually every single twin batch had a stonger and weaker twin. Stronger with Osmo and weaker with Liquid only.
Some of the requested blends are a little bizare but seem to work OK.
All of the components seem to work OK in proper balanced blends but finding the balance or blends in your circumstances may be interesting.
Is there a one size fits all plants, pots, region and micro climate? I don't think so but I am still working on the experiment. I am taking on board what I can from your input re your mixes, use a substrate in hydroponics etc but I don't think there will be a magic "Silver Bullet". In fact I think we will only shoot ourselves in the foot with a magic bullet.
I have no commercial interest in any of the products being tested or fertilizers being used.
Grant
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: November 25th, 2010, 12:10 pm
by Mitchell
"Stronger with Osmo and weaker with Liquid only."
I know I certainly prefer steak and 3 veg, to a soup when I'm hungry.
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: November 25th, 2010, 8:26 pm
by Gareth
hi grant,
what type of osmocote do you use, there are so many different kinds im not sure which one is best.
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: November 26th, 2010, 10:12 am
by NBPCA
Gareth wrote:hi grant,
what type of osmocote do you use, there are so many different kinds im not sure which one is best.
Both kinds; Country and Western!
I use Osmocote Plus for Tree,shrub and citrus (NPK 16:3.5:10)for most trees and Osmocote Native for most natives.
You can get away with just the Osmocote plus for almost everything including a lot of natives.
Grant
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: November 26th, 2010, 1:59 pm
by NBPCA
OK,
we are finally getting down to the business end of discussion re potting mix/substrate/media components and particles size.
Walter is using 3mm to 4mm particles, watering and feeding heavily.
Below is a PDF containing all the information I collected on the various components and what difference the particle size alone makes on the water holding and air filled porosity of each component.
What will suit your trees, your environment and habits/necessities?
Enjoy
Grant
Results of particle size media tests.pdf
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: November 26th, 2010, 2:35 pm
by Steven
Another interesting instalment Grant, thanks!
In your table you have listed the Medium/Components with the top one not sized.
i.e.
Diatomite Maidenwell
Diatomite Maidenwell - Extra Fine
Diatomite Maidenwell - Small
Diatomite Maidenwell - Medium
At first I wasn't sure why so I read your opening post again and will quote it here for any others who couldn't remember.
NBPCA wrote:The test results below firstly show the performance of the component with all its sizes in the ratios found and put into the pot in layers in 5”/125mm pots. Coarsest part of the component on bottom, then middling coarse then smallest on top. With some components like the propagation sand/ 3mm brown pebble they are just used straight out of the bag.
I also tested each individual particle size’s performance as well, but there is too much info at this point. I can discuss the individual components and individual component’s particle sizes as we go on. It is important! Particle size is everything! (Well almost)
Also, to help with the deciphering I'll post your explanations here too.
NBPCA wrote:Medium/Component. Name of the component I am testing
KG Dry. How much a pot full of the dry component weighed. We then put in water to lip of pot to soak
KG Drained. After 10 minutes of soaking we then let drain for 10 mins then weighed.
Water Gain KG. Weight of water gained/held/absorbed after draining for 10 mins
(NOTE. Some components are very light and increase in weight dramatically when wet but still hold/gain/absorb the same amount as some other components; so we have not expressed water gain as a % of dry weight of the component!)
PH. I used the Manutec test kit, liquid then powder, and these are our results on the day. Please allow for some leeway.
Water Table. Amount of water that freely drained out of the component when it was tipped on its side after 60 mins. Expressed as grams although we could do % of KG
AFPT. Air Filled Porosity Test. Component was placed into an open top container (1 ltr) immersed into water; wet then water allowed to drain, captured and weighed. If 300 mls of water were captured it is expressed as 30% AFP
Thanks again Grant. This is brilliant and invaluable information!
Regards,
Steven
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: November 26th, 2010, 3:14 pm
by NBPCA
Steven wrote:Another interesting instalment Grant, thanks!
In your table you have listed the Medium/Components with the top one not sized.
i.e.
Diatomite Maidenwell
Diatomite Maidenwell - Extra Fine
Diatomite Maidenwell - Small
Diatomite Maidenwell - Medium
At first I wasn't sure why so I read your opening post again and will quote it here for any others who couldn't remember.
NBPCA wrote:The test results below firstly show the performance of the component with all its sizes in the ratios found and put into the pot in layers in 5”/125mm pots. Coarsest part of the component on bottom, then middling coarse then smallest on top. With some components like the propagation sand/ 3mm brown pebble they are just used straight out of the bag.
I also tested each individual particle size’s performance as well, but there is too much info at this point. I can discuss the individual components and individual component’s particle sizes as we go on. It is important! Particle size is everything! (Well almost)
Also, to help with the deciphering I'll post your explanations here too.
NBPCA wrote:Medium/Component. Name of the component I am testing
KG Dry. How much a pot full of the dry component weighed. We then put in water to lip of pot to soak
KG Drained. After 10 minutes of soaking we then let drain for 10 mins then weighed.
Water Gain KG. Weight of water gained/held/absorbed after draining for 10 mins
(NOTE. Some components are very light and increase in weight dramatically when wet but still hold/gain/absorb the same amount as some other components; so we have not expressed water gain as a % of dry weight of the component!)
PH. I used the Manutec test kit, liquid then powder, and these are our results on the day. Please allow for some leeway.
Water Table. Amount of water that freely drained out of the component when it was tipped on its side after 60 mins. Expressed as grams although we could do % of KG
AFPT. Air Filled Porosity Test. Component was placed into an open top container (1 ltr) immersed into water; wet then water allowed to drain, captured and weighed. If 300 mls of water were captured it is expressed as 30% AFP
Thanks again Grant. This is brilliant and invaluable information!
Regards,
Steven
Also Particle size.
Extra fine is under 2mm but above about 1mm. Excludes dust but not much else and so not used much on its own
Small is approx 2mm to 4mm
Medium is approx 4mm to about 6.8 or 7mm.
Large is over 7mm and also not used much.
Most products come mixed in one way or other.
grant
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: December 11th, 2010, 10:01 am
by Grant Bowie
Hi all,
As part of the ongoing test of potting mixes and components I have now changed the paramaters.
The mixes without Osmocote were doing so poorly in comparison to those with Osmocote(both mixes also got normal liquid feeding regime at suggested strength) that I have this morning watered the mixes/components without Osmocote at TRIPLE and a bit the recommended strength.
I used Powerfeed at the rate of 100ml per 9ltr instead of 30ml per 9ltr so in fact 3 and 1/3rd times the recomended strength. That should give an NPK of something like 40:4.6:23,. I also added the normal dose of Seasol.
No sounds of bells, horns or other occurences so it passed quietly. Nothing dropped dead instantly either.
I will let you know how they go.
I imagine they will now catch up to the the other half with the Osmocote and normal liquid feed.
Grant
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: January 23rd, 2011, 2:45 pm
by Scott Roxburgh
I do not mean to Hijack this thread but thought that I should post my results of a test that I have been doing along these same lines.
Basically it is a comparison of medium Kanuma vs Diatomite for Satsuki Azaleas. I had struck some cuttings last year and had plenty so thought I would put 10 in Diatomite and the rest in Kanuma (as this is my standard medium for Satsuki)
Results:
Worst Diatomite (dead) vs Best Diatomite
Worst Diatomite vs Best Diatomite.jpg
Best Diatomite vs Good Kanuma
Best Diatomite vs Good Kanuma.jpg
Good Kanuma vs Best Kanuma (shallower-larger pot)
Good Kanuma vs Best Kanuma.jpg
Food for thought?
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: January 23rd, 2011, 8:01 pm
by Mojo Moyogi
Hi Scott,
Diatomite is pH neutral. Kanuma is acidic. Azaleas like acid soils, I am not surprised that Kanuma came out on top, true to it's reputation as a satsuki media.
Cheers,
Mojo
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: January 23rd, 2011, 8:15 pm
by kcpoole
In my very informal tests, I agree that Kanuma would be marginally better than Diatomite, but I have not seen that sort of difference tho
I have struck Azaleas in my Diatomite / Zeolite mix and have had great sucess
Was this pure diatomite? If so than that might would explain it.
Ken
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: January 24th, 2011, 10:26 am
by NBPCA
Hi all,
I will bring the growing trial Ash into the collection on Friday and do an update on the trial so far.
Grant
Re: Potting Mix Tests Results Abbreviated
Posted: January 24th, 2011, 11:37 am
by Scott Roxburgh
Mojo Moyogi wrote:Hi Scott,
Diatomite is pH neutral. Kanuma is acidic. Azaleas like acid soils, I am not surprised that Kanuma came out on top, true to it's reputation as a satsuki media.
Cheers,
Mojo
kcpoole wrote:In my very informal tests, I agree that Kanuma would be marginally better than Diatomite, but I have not seen that sort of difference tho
I have struck Azaleas in my Diatomite / Zeolite mix and have had great sucess
Was this pure diatomite? If so than that might would explain it.
Ken
Yes Mojo and Ken, it was pure Diatomite and pure Kanuma. I did not try with zeolite in this test but have in the past used Zeolite/sphagnum and have had good results.
As this was not a scientific test the large difference could have come from a higher number of cuttings being put into the Kanuma and/or just being a stronger cutting. I also did not mention that there were a few Kanuma cuttings that died too
Who knows the 2nd year in diatomite they might take off?
I am convinced that Kanuma is the best media for Satsuki but just wanted to post my unscientific somewhat biased results.
Scott.