AusBonsai

One thing for sure, this thread has brought out a lot of eloquent thinkers. Unfortunately for me I am not one of those. I will however say that any one of the trees, Mike showed us to make his point,
Would be welcome on my Benches any time.
Cheers Pup

Ditto
peterb

treeman wrote:

bodhidharma wrote:

kcpoole wrote:I have no idea what the supposed fault with the first lot and features are with the second.

Agreed! And this thread is now just bumping it's gums about how we all see things differently! And human beings have known this for Century's.

Well obviously we all see things differently. That's what the discussion is about. Are you saying that the discussion is futile because you now realize that fact?

In this thread from a few days ago you proposed exactly the opposite.
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=6215&p=210064#p210064

treeman wrote:It's a very nice little tree steven BUT I feel the need to say.....We all need to start breaking away from styling every tree (native or exotic, evergreen or deciduous) with a pre conceived Japanese classical Pine tree in our minds

I am not speaking for Bodhi ( he can do that well enough), but suspect like me, we are waiting for specific examples of what the discussion is supposed to be about.

You mention the Kimura Juniper just now and elaborate a little on what you are alluding with your comments, but still no showing of what you are proposing? I find it a stunning example of Design and meticulous grooming, and if that does not "float your boat", then that is fine. It certainly floats mine and many others too.
If you prefer the unkempt wild appearance then that is entirely up to you.
In Australia as we do not have competitive exhibitions, the entire question is pretty moot actually do whatever you like that pleases you, Post them here and display then in your local clubs to garner feedback and comments, but I believe for you to say as you have done in the above quote is doing a gross disservice to all.

I suggest to you, post examples of your work to show your ideas and thoughts and describe what you like to see in our trees, Then let everyone judge for themselves as to what we should or should not be doing.

Ken

A very interesting read, I don't feel I have anything to contribute but I personally appreciate both sides and my plans for my trees fall on both sides of the scale.

Pup, a lot of the trees you've posted here I would consider fantastic examples of the more naturalistic style, and have thought of them many times while reading this thread.

Keep up the good work guys

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Phoenix238 wrote:Pup, a lot of the trees you've posted here I would consider fantastic examples of the more naturalistic style, and have thought of them many times while reading this thread.

Could not agree more and have been lucky enough to see them up close and personal.

bodhidharma wrote:

treeman wrote:

I guess it would depend on how one looks at it. If we read Peter Chan's book "Bonsai Masterclass" where he is talking about wabi/sabi, then Kimura has captured this perfectly.

Again, different strokes for different folks.

I'm glad you reminded me of this concept of Japanese aesthetic Bhodi!
According to my little book on Wabi - Sabi, ( highly recommended by the way ''Wabi - Sabi for Artists, Designers, Poets and Philosophers by Leonard Koren , Stone Bridge Preyess Berkeley , Califorinia ), Kimura's tree illustrates perfectly that it was NOT designed with this concept in mind.
Under ''Material Qualities of wabi-sabi'' Words like ''faint'', ''fragile'',''tarnished'', ''irregular'', ''odd'', ''misshapen'', ''quiet'', ''inward-orientated'', however still with an ''undiminished poise'' and ''strength of character'' are used,
Tranquil and carming. Unpretentious. ''They do not blare out look at me'' or ''I am important'' They appear ''course or unrefined'' ''Their craftmanship may be impossible to discern'' etc etc. These are not qualities I would use in describing this tree. However that does not mean that the wabi- sabi aesthetic necessarily should apply to all bonsai. A beautiful flowering tree for example would not qualify.

treeman wrote:Again, different strokes for different folks.

Peter Chan says it very differently. But again, it relies on one's own interpretation.

treeman wrote:However that does not mean that the wabi- sabi aesthetic necessarily should apply to all bonsai. A beautiful flowering tree for example would not qualify.

how could you eliminate wabi sabi from any bonsai. just the mere size of a bonsai tree is a wabi sabi character already. show me one.

bki wrote:

treeman wrote: how could you eliminate wabi sabi from any bonsai. just the mere size of a bonsai tree is a wabi sabi character already. show me one.

My interpretation:

wabi-sabi no wabi-sabi wabi-sabi no wabi-sabi wabi-sabi no wabi-sabi wabi-sabi no wabi-sabi

Rory wrote:

From my eyes, creating your bonsai tree to exactly look like a giant majestic tree is an absolute breath-taking achievement and one to be admired. It is not at all easy, and requires the person to literally see the blueprint of the tree, and not just apply the same type of branch development to 'most' trees, or the same trunk style growth, or the same segmented branching that may or may not be appropriate depending on the species you are growing etc etc.

Well said Rory! It is far from easy. Just thinking about it puts you out of your comfort zone and actually doing it would require much planning and constant checking to see we don't fall back into what comes as second nature. Mistakes WILL be made! And ther WILL be blood!

[]Here are a couple of naturalistic trees I pass when ever I visit my Son and grand children.
All are Melaleucas.

Pup wrote:[]Here are a couple of naturalistic trees I pass when ever I visit my Son and grand children.
All are Melaleucas.

IMG_3220.JPG

IMG_3225.JPG

IMG_3238.JPG

IMG_3242.JPG

IMG_3237.JPG

IMG_3223.JPG

Are those on the Forrest Hwy Pup??

Raymond wrote:

Pup wrote:[]Here are a couple of naturalistic trees I pass when ever I visit my Son and grand children.
All are Melaleucas.

IMG_3220.JPG

IMG_3225.JPG

IMG_3238.JPG

IMG_3242.JPG

IMG_3237.JPG

IMG_3223.JPG

Are those on the Forrest Hwy Pup??

No Thomas Road Oakford. More local

no wabi sabi? what about the bulging trunk, the size ratio of the flowers to the trunk, the ratio of the width to the height. be more observant of the art.
when you hear someone singing in falsetto, it is wabi sabi at its best. no one speaks in their daily life in falsetto mode, are there any?
we are all here because wasi sabi appeals to us, some are just not aware.

bki wrote:no wabi sabi? what about the bulging trunk, the size ratio of the flowers to the trunk, the ratio of the width to the height. be more observant of the art.
when you hear someone singing in falsetto, it is wabi sabi at its best. no one speaks in their daily life in falsetto mode, are there any?
we are all here because wasi sabi appeals to us, some are just not aware.

bki, None of the things you mentioned have anything to do with wabi - sabi as I understand it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi
I think we must have have a completely different comprehention of it but it really is a different subject to this altogether.