AusBonsai

Bretts wrote:what is aquagrow?

it contains diatomite ,well thats wat people told me

it is pretty much crushed up diatomite used for aquatic plants
its orange yellow and little bits of white rocks

can you show the package. I have used and recomended aquatic planting mix but not sure if this is the same?

Bretts wrote:can you show the package. I have used and recomended aquatic planting mix but not sure if this is the same?

im sorry but i threw the bag away cleaning yesterday its the only aquatic soil i saw at bunnings

OMG CRAPPPPPPPP!!!!! i fink its this one

Haven't seen that one so I have no idea but you would think that since it is used under water that it would not break down in a hurry

Oh and thanks for the elaboration JayC. I have never tried the stuff 100% so I will wait and see how this little pine goes. I will have to try a cactus in one for you

Petra wrote:

JayC wrote:

Bretts wrote:Hey Jay C can you explain what you mean by Crap?

Sorry Brett, only just read this now

Also, i am one of the nutty ones who believe that soil must "allow sufficient air water and nutrients to reach the roots within the soil", and thus a tree can survive in marbles if conditions are right. Do i need to get the marbles out? I don't believe that attapulgite allows sufficient air, or even water, to access the roots when it has compacted as mine did.

JayC

There is small, med and large attapulgites in the cat litters and i think the larger one is the best.But its a lottery, you dont know whats in the next batch .Maybe there is a way to sift the larger chunks out. But i havnt had any problems with it so far.

I have only ever seen the one size chandlers but I haven't tried the one from coles either so maybe there is more sizes?

I can't see any problem with clay based products if they are processed or mined specifically for use in bonsai. I have doubts with the shelf life of products like kitty litter which are designed for short term use. The idea is to provide aeration in the mix that does not break down in the short term, so why be drawn to experimentation which might be detrimental to your bonsai? Zeolite is an enhancer and should not be confused with aeration. As I have pointed out in the past I use Debco mix and 1/4 minus granite as a basic mix. I add to that peat or sphagnum moss dependent on the species and other ingredients as needed. The downside with granite is that it's heavy in the mix, if you ain't a young person, but it stays in place on the benches, no worries. My granite costs $6 a bag which I can't lift on my own and I get it from a garden supply in Nyora, Victoria.
Saying all that, soil debates are the most hotly debated subjects on the boards and a lot of information comes to the fore which I think is good debate.

Ash

Without experimentation we learn nothing. Many people have moved on from the basic mix and are very glad they have.

That is pure conjecture Brett. Who are these people who have moved on? You can't reinvent the wheel because that has been done by so many and proved to be a rehash of what people did many years before. They all claim to have found the new meaning of life but fall down on past history. The old ways prevail. Some new techniques are good and do carry weight and I laud that but please do not presume that folks believe or savour the next word you type as being the gospel. You have maybe three or four years experience in our great subject and offer such profound knowledge to us lesser mortals.
Mate, stop researching and actually do it over a number of years then come back and advise us on what you discover.

I fail to see what is conjecture but anyway. You would have to have your head in the sand not to know that many people are now using what has been called a modern mix by Walter. I have noticed in his demonstrations these days he talks of not being able to over water a modern mix like everyone is using them.
All I have done here is discuss my experience with Chandlers kitty litter over the past 4 years and after seeing that it was not working as well for a few as it had for me I have started to try and work out why.
I have purchased another bag of chandlers, I have sifted it into it's different grades, I have potted these in water to test for as long as I can be bothered, I have potted a small pine in 100% mix, I have shown a tree that has been growing in the mix going into it's second year which has shown marked improvement in health. I have finally been able to experiment with Akadama the mark of a great soil medium This is all doing What are you doing besides trying to stir trouble.
I am not trying to re-invent the wheel I am only taking advice from other people that have experimented and looked to relate that to my habits, conditions and availability of supplies. Soil does make a difference and I realise that more than ever this year and if you are happy with what you use that is great but why hack on others for experimenting and learning?
The Aussie optimum is to be able to spin an interesting yarn so if you are captivated by my banter I am flattered but I do not presume to hold any gospel.
I am ok with what I have accomplished in the first 5 years of practicing and researching bonsai. It seems to me that you are the one with something to prove

Ash Barns wrote:The old ways prevail.

Old like debco or old like akadama? Kitty litter is closer to akadama.....

Old ways prevail assuming that the test of time has proved them right, but time doesn't test against new emerging products. Experimenting is a great thing! I would like to congratulate Brett for his efforts, both in doing some testing, and for bettering all of our knowledge as well by sharing results.

Thanks Brett!

JayC

JayC wrote:

Ash Barns wrote:The old ways prevail.

Old like debco or old like akadama? Kitty litter is closer to akadama.....

Old ways prevail assuming that the test of time has proved them right, but time doesn't test against new emerging products. Experimenting is a great thing! I would like to congratulate Brett for his efforts, both in doing some testing, and for bettering all of our knowledge as well by sharing results.

Thanks Brett!

JayC

Heye, heye i second that.Good on ya Bretts.Great job.

Shucks thanks guys

JayC wrote:

Ash Barns wrote:The old ways prevail.

Old like debco or old like akadama? Kitty litter is closer to akadama.....

Old ways prevail assuming that the test of time has proved them right, but time doesn't test against new emerging products. Experimenting is a great thing! I would like to congratulate Brett for his efforts, both in doing some testing, and for bettering all of our knowledge as well by sharing results.

Thanks Brett!

JayC

I guess there are beef stirrers in the bonsai world never thought that i would see one i thought bonsai is suppose to bring a calmness to the owners
anyways I GOT YOUR BACK experimenting is what makes bonsai fun and thats why we have aus bonsai.

Anyways dont know why hes so angry it aint his tree ur experimenting on

i guess our soil is just too HIP for the old ways