AusBonsai

i understood your technique you described mate my biggest fear is not actually all about it looking unnatural, what i am thinking is that being that the bark has been damaged it will actually be scar tissue that heals and not new bark untill later, the thing with scar tissue is that it can be quite difficut for the vascular system to develop any new shoots from the scar tissue if new branches are needed. some trees have the ability to do this while others it can be extremely difficult.


jamie

Aging and fissuring bark against a wall is one thing. Although i suspect the heat radiated off the wall has something to do with it as well as the shade aspect. But to use torture techniques to age a trunk and risk it dieing back or not budding, im just not sure guys. Wrapping, wiring and bending is already pushing it. So at least kill a few birds with one stone and then be able to leave alone. Sanding and wrapping is just not convincing me. Stabbing and smashing doesn't either. JMO and with that its all been said now, bye.

Pup some fair points mate! Layering junipers in order to probogate makes alot of sense to me!

just thinking about your response there ant you have made a point without even realising it i htink, the wrapping, wiring and bending, this is putting a lot of stress on the trees bark and vascular so shouldnt dong this help increase the speed in which the bark ages? its covering all aspects of the given techniques as such, covering the bark, doing damage to it with wiring and bending, i think the idea of speeding up the process of maturing bark is great in theory, but i would like to see some examples and progressions of how it is done and if it comes out natural or unnatural looking, like i said with my experiences from trying to mature trees include slashing, stabbing etc. of th bark i have found little success in it, the vertical slits made in my swamp cypress have opened up and are thickening the trunk but it has also caused a large shari running straight down the trunk to open aswell, i dont know how this will work in future design but i have to work with it now dont i?


jamie

Jamie wrote:just thinking about your response there ant you have made a point without even realising it i htink, the wrapping, wiring and bending, this is putting a lot of stress on the trees bark and vascular so shouldnt dong this help increase the speed in which the bark ages? its covering all aspects of the given techniques as such, covering the bark, doing damage to it with wiring and bending, i think the idea of speeding up the process of maturing bark is great in theory, but i would like to see some examples and progressions of how it is done and if it comes out natural or unnatural looking, like i said with my experiences from trying to mature trees include slashing, stabbing etc. of th bark i have found little success in it, the vertical slits made in my swamp cypress have opened up and are thickening the trunk but it has also caused a large shari running straight down the trunk to open aswell, i dont know how this will work in future design but i have to work with it now dont i?


jamie

The point is there jimmie, just food for thought who would like to digest it. ps i've already had lunch!

Stand back. Drop that wire and pruners. How dare you hurt that poor little tree

obviously you missed my point...............

Not at all Jamie. Steven has already shown that just wrapping a tree changes the texture. I think Antonio made the point about torture!
If you want to see some pictures of this technique they are in Colin Lewis's book The Art of Bonsai Design page 19.
As Pup stated there are many things we do to our trees to speed up the aging process. That is the art of bonsai. To make a tree look as old as possible.

the vertical slits made in my swamp cypress have opened up and are thickening the trunk but it has also caused a large shari running straight down the trunk to open as well,

You may remember I never liked the idea of making slits in trees when it was suggested and you wanted to try it. I have only ever seen results that show scaring. I have heard that using pin holes will do the same thing without leaving scars since though so I might try that.
These things should be tried on inexpensive stock. Again what was explained to me was just using spag moss not sand paper. It is not an overnight thing and does happen in nature. As I stated the technique was discovered after noting how the trunk buried under mulch on the ground was more aged than that above.

cool

i can see what steven has done and that is all fine, it was wrapped in something that doesnt hold moisture as such, my fear with sphag is the high moisture content getting into the tree, and also the way sphag can possibly harbour nasties. this is just my opinion though. i havent got colin lewis's book so i will have a bit of a scrounge and see what i can come up with on the net.

i also agree the art of bonsai is about making a tree look aged but that isnt just the trunk aspect of it, an aged looking tree doesnt just look aged by the trunk it involves a lot of different things, like the shape of the tree, the apex whether it appears rounded as a mature conifer will show or if it still liiks pointy, the branching and ramification of branching will make a tree look more mature, following correct guidelines and techniques will bring a tree up to an aged appearance in time, using this bark technique on a tree that is younger and not fully developed could eventually make it look rather odd, again my personal opinion.

i dunno maybe i am maturing in bonsai but i would personally like to let the tree develop its own fissured bark over time while i am working on the whole tree getting it to a rather refined stage that i would be proud to show, i dont think i would use these techniques any more, i have tried others that i havent personally been happy with and as you said with the slits all you have seen is scars form, my results similar, i must say that where the techniqued worked properly it has helped in thickening a bit.

cheers

jamie

Hey Jamie. Spag moss is like an antiseptic(lack of knowledgeable word) like honey it cures problems it won't cause any. Some people grow their Bonsai in 100% spag moss. If you have some seeds in moist stratification that start to get a mossy growth on them. Chuck a little spag moss on them and the moss disappears. It is a magic weed.

Making the tree look aged is part of bonsai. Making a convincing miniature is way more important. Growing a convincing bonsai takes time it is not far removed from the time it takes to grow a tree in the garden, depending on the species. Sure there are many techniques available to speed up the process, but in the end added years plus technique are the 2 ingredients required. Playing around with the bark texture can be rewarding but in the end its not going to make a huge difference to your tree and certainly won't substitute age.
Craig

Having done my bit for research. I remember a Bonsai nursery man back in the late 80s early 90s. Did this with a Ficus hillii ( hills weeping fig ).

He drilled a series of 2mm holes 25cm up the trunk through the bark to the heart wood it looked like a honeycomb all the way round.
The trunk was already 7.5 cm after 10 years it had not changed it still looked the same. It was not covered in any wrapping just left to the open air.

There is another method, this one I have tried, the results were not conclusive though. That is tapping the trunk with a hammer around the base, to cause trauma,
to the underlying tissues.
The theory is that the tree will heal itself by causing it to callous therefor thickening the trunk, it was recommended to try and resolve reverse taper also.

As I said results were not conclusive, I tried for both reasons it still had reverse taper when it was sold on. The tree was a good tree apart from the reverse which annoyed me but not the new owner.
The species was untried as far as air layering by me. Cedrus libani brevifolia. He has since put a phoenix graft ( Tanuki ) there looks good apart from what I know is there.

Cheers Pup

i said to myself to keep my mouth shut bout this but on that note of growing trees in complete 100% sphag moss i think it is an extremely bad idea, i think it would stay way to wet and you would find root rot would set in, might aswell keep the pot submerged in water 24/7. just my opinion on that too.

jamie.

C'mon Jamie don't knock it until you try it Ok this guys trees aren't great but they are not dieing from root rot either
I can't wait to try this but I need a bulk bag of spag first. Notice how much he shoves in thier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPVaAXgR ... re=related
Oops you need to watch the next one too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7DhdiR7 ... re=related

Ok GUD.... I gotta admit that I woudnt do what hes doing coz afterall sphagnum is a moss wich can collect fungus and you might end up wif a dead tree... But give him some credit bonsai is a hobby not a competition and if his sphagnum works for him and not to us oh well hes not doing any harm... But I think we should leave the insults at the the critique forum...

I agree Orion but I must admit I am keen to try this with at least one of my trees. Spag moss is magic stuff that just seems to chase any bad stuff away.