AusBonsai

Soltan, Potters will show you how to form pots, and build and sculpt with the medium. They will rarely give out glaze recipes or other artistic finishes that they have developed. Thats part of the artist.
For it to be art, there must be factors that people must find out for themselves. Learn the basics of forming and then start experimenting.

Jon Chown wrote:God, give me the strength

Jon

And me too.
Penny.

This is my opinion only. To obtain other potters' answers, post your questions on a ceramics website forum. quote="soltan"]I would like to answer these questions/statements but I think that would be folly until the simple questions I asked are answerd in some way otherwise this discussion will become even more useless.
I will repost these questions

It seems the secret techinque culture in pottery is explained as a necessity to protect income.
In my case, yes
Or possibly it extends further than this?
Not for me.
Are the techniques passed on to only those who have something to give back?
No.
Is it an only to my best friends culture?
No.
I can pass it on to you but don't publish this?
No.
Hobby or Business, is it only bussiness potters that have secret techniques?
No.
Is it only trade mark techniques that are kept secret?
In my case, yes.
Is there any way some one nieve like me can understand what is ok to talk about and what is generally classed as secret knoledge?
You can only ask the potter.
Can potters give finished example of some of thier secret techniques?
Yes and I already have.
Is there any example of a technique being exployted in the potting world(not the corparete world) that has caused the owner of the technique to lose bussiness or money?
There are plenty. Most potters have had it happen to them. Most potters don't dwell on it but have the attitude "Once bitten, twice shy".
I hope some frank answers on this will help my understanding.

[/quote]
For other potters' comments, post your questions on a ceramics website forum.
Penny.

soltan wrote: I want to explain what Horst told me but as it was given in a PM would I be out of order to explain it freely here.

............but it's not out of order for the rest of us to divulge confidences?

Ausus. I missed your 200th post. Congratulations!
Penny.

i think this one has been kicked to death, what say you

possibly more than once

I say ya.
Peter

soltan wrote:
I want to explain what Horst told me but as it was given in a PM would I be out of order to explain it freely here.

............but it's not out of order for the rest of us to divulge confidences?

I am asking a question not making a statement and I gave the details anyway

Me too.
Penny.

Since Penny had a go at answering my questions I better answer Spinners.

Well Soltan, if you're going to copy Pat's fractured pots you're going to have to demonstrate an ability to 'throw'.....how about some proof of your prowess on the wheel?
If you can't throw well, and I mean very well, there's not much use in begging a process that relies on throwing to succeed!
Let me add that I don't have a problem with seeing a process that excites curiosity and then trying to duplicate it, but I do think you ought to try and nut it out yourself first and not expect everything to be handed to you on a plate.
A suggestion; why don't you contact Pat and have a chat to him....you might find him very approachable and no, I'm not giving you his number, do some legwork!!!

Spinner the ladies thought I would head straight for the wheel. In fact the wheel has not intreeged me at all. One day I will get on the wheel but I don't see that in the near future.
What lead you to believe I have any prowess on the wheel?
I don't think I am asking for something to be handed on a plate. All I am doing is asking for a technique to be explained and then wondering why it is such a big deal in pottery!
LOL I don't need you to give me his number. In fact I have talked with Pat and he is a very nice chap. Like I said I like Horst's results better.

Thanks for the quick answers on my questions Penny I will be sure to refer back to this when I become confused
I would gladly jump on a Potters forum to discuss this and other things except I have not found a message board type forum for that. I just can't get the hang of those Group type forums

Soltan... are you a businessman??? How can you compare teaching bonsai techniques 'and they are hardly 'secrets'!!! when everyone is working on a different tree [shape, size etc]. Potters, GOOD potters, work hard to develop their specific tecnhiques and glazes to promote 'their' name/look/identity. Why should they pass on that info to just anyone. You can tell someone how to pot and prune a black pine and show them on their black pine but that does not mean that their black pine will develop into anything worthwhile. Or that their bonsai skills will develop into anything worthwhile. Yet you expect someone who has worked for years to develop a specific technique to develop a glaze that can be applied to clay by anyone knowing the formula to divulge this??? Wake up man, join the real world. If I had the talent to create beautiful pots and created a specific glaze that others lusted after, the last thing I would do is to broadcast that formula... tho I would be happy to teach them how to create pots... well knowing the majority would not have the talent to produce anything commendable.

I think you are asking for the moon and I am more than sure you would not be prepared to reveal 'secrets' that would limit your income were the shoe on the other foot [or the clay on the other wheel!!!].

ok thats gotta be the last death kicking

orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

All the bonsai nurseries that I can think off make most money from selling stock not highly artistic bonsai styled for years. The skills directly related to Bonsai that are needed by a Bonsai Nurseryman are propagation and trunk growing.
There are a few in the world that make thier money as artists especaily in Japan. The other great artist mainly make thier money by teaching.
There is a different culture in potters who seem to need a secret technique to be of noteriety. I see it has very little to do with with the fact that bonsai don't come out of a mold.
This is shown by such contraversy over asking how Pat does his crak pots. Even though most here seem to know that it is common knoledge
Like I said there are many Cultures that are a nesecity but then some cultures are distorted by nievity.
I try not to look with tunnel vision. I can see why occasionaly a potter would like to keep a technique secret as a type of trade mark. I would be very keen to keep a trade mark protected it is a label of quality. I think that this has been distorted by "Wanna Be" Potters that think they too must keep secrets to make them of some noteriaty. If I am rong about this so be it. Hopefully I will not be wrong for long. To learn I must ask questions. Yet this seems to upset people. Well this is a discussion board what are you gunna do take away my birthday
Yes potters have full right to keep any secrets that they have worked for or been given even. I am honestly just trying to understand why they do.
I like to think of myself of a businessman we all should. I believe the best businessman are continually inovative. Talking from experience it is not the idea that makes you money but the business process. I have released products without patents as I could see it was such a simple idea that it would be impossible to protect. What was important was getting the trade mark known as a quality product at the best price.
I have extended my hobby in Bonsai to selling and I have projects in the making(growing). I am a beginner in many regards but being so far away from the bonsai activities I am using the endevour to speed my development in bonsai techniques. I have been very open about this with my online bonsai mates. The encouragment and critisisim has all contributed to my learning. I have found it more rewarding in learning than cash returns.