Superthrive Vs. Seasol

[BrianBay9]

Brett,

You are an amazing piece of work. Have a good life.

Brian

[Bretts]

I take that means you have nothing to back up any statement that you have made. You are the piece of work to make such claims and then run when any factual information is asked for.

[IS2SXC]

I take that means you have nothing to back up any statement that you have made. You are the piece of work to make such claims and then run when any factual information is asked for.

bretts how come everytime i go read a topic u are having huge debates with pplz


interesting facts though GOOD ON YA

minh

[Edward Scissorhand]

Hello people, Im wishing no offence to anyone here and not choosing sides in this debate. But having tried superthrive years ago, my OWN personal opinion which you can take it or leave it. Its only worth its value, if you got weak trees and plants, such as seedlings or heavily rootpruned or recently dug trees. However having said this, if your bonsai's just brimming with vitality, then superthrive wont make it any healthier. My opinion.

[63pmp]

One question that has never appeared in any discussion related to seasol or superthrive is;

Why do you need to make so many roots?

Isn't the amount of roots a plant has related to the amount of available fertiliser the plants get?

Paul

[Bretts]

IS2SXC
bretts how come everytime i go read a topic u are having huge debates with pplz


interesting facts though GOOD ON YA

minh

That's debatable I got a High Distinction in Critical Thinking at University. A subject that took debate and crossed it with Algebra I was in my element
Thanks! I am glad you like the facts. It should be about the facts but the opinion is often the substance of these discussions.


Hi Edward
Even though you call this opinion the facts tend to agree with you. That is why I have never advocated day to day use of added auxin. But with many things in plants I think added auxin is still an unfinished theory. Seasol is still advertised and backed by many people as helping against drought, pests and disease. I thought this may have all been a bye product of great root growth but have since been told it is on a cellular level! Maybe there are other ingredients in Seasol and Superthrive that are a continuing benefit so I have gone back to light use of seasol in general care.

Hi Paul
Root growth is in direct relation to shoot growth so as long as my trees are in the development stage I will take all the root growth I can. Especially after transplanting which is what added auxin is all about. I have heard about using less fertiliser on finished trees and I might worry about that when I get there
But if you have some information about this please share!

It is worth mentioning though that Brent Waltson has some very good points about not cutting a tree's branches back at transplant time as it reduces the natural auxin that the tree is able to produce.

[63pmp]

Hi Brett, not got any solid info, only stuff put together from different references,

Root growth is in direct relation to shoot growth so as long as my trees are in the development stage I will take all the root growth I can. Especially after transplanting which is what added auxin is all about. I have heard about using less fertiliser on finished trees and I might worry about that when I get there

I'm not sure I fully agree with your statement, certainly in early stages after repot where roots have been removed there is root growth along with shoot growth, but I think that when roots become developed and are able to supply needed nutrients they slow down or stop. The important aspect is are able to supply needed nutrients. This is seen in hydroponics where tomato's root mass may only be 10% of total plant mass, while tomato's grown in the ground the roots may be 50% total mass. Supplying enough nutrients is key though. However, I'm also a firm believer in source and sink growth. If your constantly stimulating new roots by adding auxin, the leaves will be busily feeding carbohydrate to the roots, and not to branch growth. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, which is why I put up the original question.

Paul

[Bretts]

Hi Paul
My understanding is that tree needs to grow new roots and shoots to survive. The shoots send a hormone to the roots (auxin) that tells them to grow and in turn the roots send hormone to the shoots telling them to grow. This was best explained to me in how old trees die. They get so big that they are no longer able to grow deeper and taller and the energy levels drop so much they die from disease that they can not ward of any longer.
I think it is possible for root growth to slow down even with alot of shoot growth when the nutrients are in over supply but never stop. This is one theory of using pelleted ferts in a soil mix at repotting and holding back on liquid fert, so as to make the roots search out the nutrients. There are always exceptions but I am confident to believe that a vigorous root system will give better stronger healthier growth and that is what we should aim for.

My thinking is that the sooner you get good root growth after repotting the better position the tree will be in. The main factor to me is that it creates a structure to the soil mix and the water in the pot is used efficiently. No water is left to go stagnant in the bottom. Another big factor is it anchors the tree and reduces the risk of damage to the growing root tips where all the work is done.

Oh and with good root growth we can get great looking surface roots and basal flare of course

[woody]

hi, personally i've learnt a lot from this thread. most importantly, never print words that might be false. ouch.

[Bretts]

Hi Woody.
I reckon I have learn't more about how plants grow discussing Auxins than I have in any other discussion. It is a fascinating subject.

[woody]

gday Bretts, i had to go look up what auxin meant when the discussion started to focus on that one word. It's been absolutely fascinating reading about peoples veiw. Unfortunately, i feel completely inadequate to start this crusade in the bonsai world. Particularly after seeing Pups winning photos. And then all the scientific banter. Holy crap!

[FlyBri]

I have removed the posts which got this thread locked. However, I believe some of the conduct in this thread has generated enough ill-will that there is no point re-opening it.

I am disappointed by many of the (deleted) comments here, which were made by folks who should know better. I will not name names, as those involved know exactly who they are. I am still debating punitive measures, and can assure you all that I will not be nearly so lenient in the future.

Thanks.

[FlyBri]

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