AusBonsai

Hi all, today I decided to repot one of my pj figs utilising the "Fast Growing Method" that Graeme posted a while back.
I collected this baby pj from under a palm tree in the spring of 2010. As is common for this species when young, it had major reverse taper at the base. So I cut it off at the widest point of the base, discarding all the roots, treating it as a cutting (like you can do with olives).
It recovered well and grew ok except that I kept in a small pot (ice-cream container), and didn't really feed it enough...as well as leaving it in the green house all that time ...silly me! So I had a look today and bare rooted it...
Looking at the first two pics you can see that the fig has three main branches. Two of them are basically the main trunk lines/leaders, as they form at the top of the trunk base. I ended up cutting one of these off as in the future I didn't want the fig to develop any swelling in that area creating some revers taper (like you would find on a broom style).
When bare rooting I was glad to find that the third branch (the lowest one), had ground layered itself forming its own root system. This obviously happened as the bottom of this branch was submerged in soil. I am leaving the roots on this branch for the moment in the hope that they help this branch to thicken further and as a result, hopefully also thicken the trunk below this point creating more basal flare and taper. I will use this branch as a sacrifice. I stuck fairly closly to Graeme's "Fast Growing Method" although I did not use a poly box, but still made sure that I had many large drainage holes that I covered with mesh. I then used a thick layer of grit on the bottom, followed by a mix of pelletised chook poo, blood n' bone and osmocote slow release...then layed down a nice size piece of slate, put some more gritt ontop of the slate, then tied the fig into the pot, topped up with some more fert mix and then a thin layer of a very free draining mix and watered it in very thoroughly. I think that is what I was supposed to do?
I did however decide to defoliate the pj and maybe I should not have done this? I did see sonic976 do this when he planted some pj's on a rock earlier this year...it should be ok?...I hope.
Potted up... I read in a thread earlier today about "When to defoliate figs" , that it is best not to fertilise and defoliate at the same time. I guess I will find out one way or another!
I have been thinking that maybe I should have removed the roots on the low sacrifice branch that ground layered itself...maybe the roots will encourage the base of the branch to thicken up but not the trunk directly underneath it (which is where I want it to thicken). Also, perhaps the roots on the main trunk will have to strugle to compete with the roots on the lower branch?
What do you think?...would love someone with experience to comment on this point.
Cheers, and thanks for reading! Dario.

Gday Dario
They say not to fertilise when you defoliate as there is minimal photosynthesis taking place and it could harm the tree.
I personally have treated some fig vary hard and if the tree is strong and healthy it will just set it back some and want kill it.
Good luck

Andrew

Thanks AndrewM, that is what I am hoping for as it was healthy prior to this procedure.
I am also not sure about defoliating when repotting too, although it does make some horticultural sense as it will avoid transpiration through the leaves while the roots are recovering....time will tell, fingers crossed
I also decided that instead of disposing of the branch that I cut off, I'd use it as a cutting... I defoliated the cutting... I enjoyed doing this today, and tomorrow I will post a new thread of a pj clump I collected of a brick wall last year, as I need some advice on what to and what not to prune.
Cheers, Dario.

Hi, can't sleep! as bloody usual
Regarding the little cutting I took, I think it was very silly of me to defoliate...after all, you do the the leaves to photosynthesise and grow the roots
Oh well, it is just an experiment

This thread probably isn't that interesting as there are fantastic fig progressions on this website, not to mention amazing bonsai ...but I would really appreciate it if someone could answer the query from my quote below as after all, a bonsai has to start from somewhere...and I wish to give this fig a good go to learn with etc.

Dario wrote:I have been thinking that maybe I should have removed the roots on the low sacrifice branch that ground layered itself, as maybe the roots will encourage the base of the branch itself to thicken up but not the trunk directly underneath it (which is where I want it to thicken). Also, perhaps the roots on the main trunk will have to strugle to compete with the roots on the lower branch?
What do you think?...would love someone with experience to comment on this point.
Cheers, and thanks for reading! Dario.

Cheers, Dario.

Hi Dario a sacrifice branch is a branch not a separate trunk as in this case , this is more of a twin trunk .I would remove the roots on the branch , raise the trunk out of the soil and most certainly not have root pruned the original trunk . Roots and leaves are required to feed and grow the plant the sacrifice branch thickens the trunk base so it should be part of the tree not a separate plant . remove the lower foliage on the branch and continue to rub off any new shoots along its length leaving only the tip to continue to grow on .

Cheers Alpineart

Dario wrote:Hi, can't sleep! as bloody usual
Regarding the little cutting I took, I think it was very silly of me to defoliate...after all, you do the the leaves to photosynthesise and grow the roots

Ficus cuttings will root with no leaves on them, should be fine

hi mate,

what you have done wont be a prob, I have treated figs way harder then this and they have bounced back quicker then the ones I was more cautious on

as for that second trunk or low branch whichever you want to call it, leave it on, it will help thicken the base and is already as can be seen, the taper is coming along well too.

the radial root spread you have there is excellent and will pull out the lower trunk from the nebari really well creating a good flare and taper. so I wouldnt remove that yet. once it gets to thick then consider removing it and growing a few smaller sacrifices in place. I am in the middle of an article in regards to the use of sacrifice branching and also using the scars as a feature which is known as uro.

what you are doing is good and you will get a nice tree there. when it shoots back and you have a branchlet coming from a good spot get a bit of wire on and add some movement to the trunkline. doing this to create taper and movement in the trunk is the way to go (it is shown in the thread on how to grow dynamic figs).

that branch/trunk that has grown its own roots, if you can ty them down to the trunk and make them part of the nebari (this will also be in that article I am writing).

good work and keep it up. the fast grow method has its advantages and disadvantages but as long as you have it draining freely you should be good. the disavantages I had while doing this was the dynamic lifter (chook poo) once it gets wet a few times it can compact down, but if you have added enough grit to this is should be sweet and by the sounds of it you have. the thick coarse lower layer of medium is needed as when you do water it will hold a fair amount of water being that it is organic, but the drainage layer willl help stop the roots sitting in a pool of water down below and rotting.

look forward to see this come along. very good work my friend

Thanks for your response Alpine! It was a branch that then grew roots, if I remove the roots I guess it will be a branch again
I did make a few mistakes!!...in my mind most of all removing the leaves. But, right or wrong, I don't mind sorting the roots at this stage...after all it is a fig.
Thank you for your time and sound advise mate, it is valuable to me!
Thanks for the encouragement Hornet, I hope the cutting lives..I did leave a very small leaf low down but I doubt it will help that much.
Thanks to you too Jamie that was a very detailed reponse! I was wondering how I could access your article when you finish writing it as I would very much like to read it.
Also a big thank you to you for all your advise, especially with your knowledge of figs!
Yes, I will be leaving the sacrifice until its job is done...gets too thick. I am going to constantly refer to the tutorial on "how to grow dynamic figs", cheers for the reminder mate!
I really like your suggestion of tieing the roots from the sacrifice to the lower trunk, I assume these will fuse to it and aid the base in thickening further? I will follow this advice and appreciate it!...do you think I can do that now?
Just for interests sake, if I left it as is (which I won't/purely a hypothetical here),in your opinion Jamie would the roots on the low sacrifice branch that ground layered itself encourage the base of the branch itself to thicken up but not the trunk directly underneath it?...would the roots on the main trunk strugle to compete with the roots on the lower branch?...or would the trunk base go on thickening unaffected?
Thanks to all for their help!
Cheers, Dario.

hi mate

we all make mistakes, if we didnt we wouldnt learn! the thing is we need to pass knowledge on as this is how others learn aswell and if others can learn from anothers mistake we will all move forward! and sometimes mistakes can be handy even if we didnt know it at the time!
as for stripping the leaves off dont stress, I reckon you will get a flush of new growth within the next two weeks, maybe a tad longer but should fire up, I defoliated a QSL the other week and two weeks later it has got a crap load of new leaves already. figs in summer grow strong. so dont stress

ok, with the branch with the roots, yes tie them to the trunk, this will fuse in and help thicken and flare the base. as it fuses in and becomes part of the main trunks cambium it will also add some interest, possibly give you a bit of a fissured look although since you plan on growing it bigger then it will more than likely smooth out, but will thicken the trunk yes. here is a quick mud map.
brown is trunk line (just a standard looking informal upright) although the taper in this mudmap is good what i am showing will help with flare and nebari aswell. yellow is the airial roots. they arent as long as they should be in the pic though.
be careful of this, when tying the roots to the trunk if they are coming out as in this pic in purple, they have grown out a bit to much but that part wont matter to much once the airials fuse to the lower part of the trunk where you want them too, then they can be removed from the emerging point and cut the airials of at the green arrows (obviously with concave cutters so it heals over well, or use the scars for Uro. (another thing I need to write in the article). where the blue line is once the airials are part of the main trunks cambium (have fused in) the airial part above the blue can be removed (at the same time as cutting where the green arrows are).
as seen here, where there airials are younger and more pliable but hardened off enough to move without snapping off then getting them in and tying them to the trunk at this stage is a lot better, it gives a better finish as the airial will basically fuse in from where it started, thickening the whole section of the tree. blue lines and arrows are just to show of where you would tie the airials to trunk, as long as there is enough airial roots, and they are tied in tight enough to the trunk without being to tight you will get good results. these airial roots can be trained/tied all the way down the trunk and right down across the surface of the soil, placing them where they will also help create good nebari is handy aswell. this not only gives you a good nebari but if there is enough you can get a really flared, flat nebari like the big figs you see from over seas. (leong has a few like this in his book, they nearly look like they are plaited sometimes and I beleive some are).

I have a few trees I am developing in which I can get pics to show what I mean with all of what I have said. I know its a lot to take in but give it time and it will gotta charge the camera's battery and then will get pics for you on the ones I have that I am talking bout. I think that just about covers the idea of using the airial roots being tied to the trunk to thicken.

so in saying all of that..
with this root you are talking about, I would tie it to the trunk as close as possible without tearing it from the branch too much. it might even be easier if you wire that branch with a little heavier wire and bend it down some so you can get that root as close to the trunk as possible. anchor the wire from above that branch so you dont get wire in under the root which you want to be touching the trunk so it will fuse. dont worry bout wiring any movement into it as it is a sacrifice branch. you can strip the first few inches of leaves of that sacrifice though so sun can hit that trunk which will help it pop out more.
wouldnt stress bout wiring the leader at the moment either, just leave it be to help thicken the lower trunk, then once you get a shoot pop out right where you want the next section of trunk as per instructions in the dynamic fig thread.

the roots on that branch will help thicken that branch, but it will also help thicken that section of trunk aswell as it is still somewhat being fed by the roots underneath. it wont matter once the root has fused and sacrifice removed as if you go with more smaller sacrifices than one big one it wont be on long enough to cause any probs. the trunk will continue to thicken as that wont be the only branch feeding the tree. bit of a way to go but if you feed it heavy, treat it right, ask when ya unsure (which you do ) and give it some love you should get a nice, thick informal upright tree with some nice taper.

hope that wasnt to much info in one hit! but its all there and others can see what is going on. this is one technique I am using to grow figs myself. still got a long way to go with them as those bloody floods took a lot of my fig stocks, its ok though as I have plenty of other figs around to get stock from and these guys can power on quickly as can be seen.

hope it all helps

jamie

Jamie, that was tremendously informative and very helpful indeed And no, it was absolutely not too much info to take in in one hit!...I lapped it all up!
The mud maps you provided were great and with them I was able to understand everything you wrote...I would have struggled without them though,,,not due to your description (which was very clear), but my inexperience.
Can't thank you enough mate!!
Cheers, Dario.