AusBonsai

Hi all, NOOOOOOO, I found a problem in one of my favorite in training trees. As you can see from the pics a swelling has occured, totally uninvited up near the top.

Now, without the experts commenting on the tree...

I would like advice please in why this happened and can i reverse it. The tree is splitting and I know it will heal as a lot of scars heal easily on this tree, but I do not want to lose this top.

HELP!!!

Why are you keeping the top? You could replace it if you wish.

I could, i've done that a few times with this tree. but recently i made the decision to pot it into a big pot to push for some big growth over the next few years. I really want to thicken the bugger up. it's been in a bonsai pot for most of it's life, and I decided to turn it into a biggie.

so, i wanted to keep the top cos it was very healthy and ready to explode with growth this year, losing the top will set it back.

Also cos of a big stuff up a few months ago, i was tinkering with it and snapped a grouse branch in a good spot, and so had to trim a few others here and there to get it to this, with large gaps between the lower set, middle set and upper set of branches. To re-wire a new trunk will then throw that out too...

then just tape it up and don't worry about it swelling if you are are going to remove it.

Is the top just a sacrifice?

if you want to thicken it up quick, I would put it in the ground if you can and let the top go mad

Every 2-3 years pull it out and work it then put it back in to go again

Ken

Hi Marc,

Please understand that I am not to be held responsible for what I was to say in this post

I have observed that sometimes black pines do this, I have it occured a few times on my black
pines as well, although I must say not to this extend.

And as others have said, I let it growed for a while then cut it off.

I am sure you can bring it to your club and there are plenty of people who will know more about
this.

Good luck Marc

Sorry, Marc, but the way this pine is developing is no good.
You need to cut back the trunk to the first node (the lowest set of branches), from which three good branches radiate. Use the one on the left as your new apex, wire it upwards and you'll have a new trunk with enough shoots close together to develop into better branching than you have now. Shorten the other two branches, so they will backbud.

Also have a look at this website, especially at the species guide and "pines":http://www.bonsai4me.com/
It's one of the best sources of info on the Internet, and the guy who set it up is one of the best bonsai growers in the business.

Lisa

Hi Marc,
mate I have to agree with L.
The art of growing on is not just to let it get bigger in a pot, it needs work along the the way.
After the first set of branching, the trunk has not much character and is very straight and any "whorl" branching needs to be removed early to eliminate bulging on the trunk.
Eventual removal where L. said will give you a fair tree to work with. In the meantime, grow the top on as an entire sacrifice section and don't worry about the "Thickening" up top.
Don't forget to wire the new leader into position before it sets too hard
Hope you're not offended by the comments, but the forum is to help a lot of our inexperienced members as well
cheers
Dave

daves got it spot on marc. within the scenario that dave and lisa have given there exist's a little more detail. which would be alot easier to deal with in person. maybe we can work shop your tree together and then post your results. i wouldnt chop anything now but late june - early july would be a good time.

Lisa, Dave, no offense at all. exactly as you said Dave, the reason i'm on this forum is to learn...

Anttal63, you are right, we will.

i'll leave the top there as an entire sacrifice and start to wire that branch up to become a new leader...

fantastic marc i look forward to meeting you in person.

LLK wrote:Sorry, Marc, but the way this pine is developing is no good.
You need to cut back the trunk to the first node (the lowest set of branches), from which three good branches radiate. Use the one on the left as your new apex, wire it upwards and you'll have a new trunk with enough shoots close together to develop into better branching than you have now. Shorten the other two branches, so they will backbud.

Also have a look at this website, especially at the species guide and "pines":http://www.bonsai4me.com/
It's one of the best sources of info on the Internet, and the guy who set it up is one of the best bonsai growers in the business.

Lisa

He should be only keeping the lions tail and those branches needed for the end design.
Its part of a number of techniques used for thickening pine trunks quickly.

Great to have all this help at hand. All good quality information as well! I am learning all the time here.
B.

He should be only keeping the lions tail and those branches needed for the end design.
Its part of a number of techniques used for thickening pine trunks quickly.

I agree with Asus. Japanese black pines are apically dominant (strongest growth at the top and branch tips). Nutrition now needs to go to the low branch selected as the new apex. Keeping the trunk won't help that, the pine will just go on growing as it has until now.
Cutting back in mid Winter is a good idea generally, but in S. Australia it doesn't get cold enough for the tree to go completely dormant, so you will always have some sap flow. If that pine were mine, I'd cut off the trunk now and stick some Blu-Tack on the cut to prevent it bleeding excessively. Now is the time we pluck the needles of 2-needle pines, because they will be preparing to set new buds. I'd take advantage of this stage in the growth of the tree and get rid of that trunk so the new apex can start developing straight away.

The art of growing on is not just to let it get bigger in a pot, it needs work along the the way.

I really liked that!

Lisa

Hi Guys
That quote, Lisa, really rings true.
When I was Tutor at the Newcastle BS, a member brought along a tree that looked like a large stick in a pot. The material really didn't have much future as a bonsai.
When I told him to cut it off at the first branch and take it home and grow on for a few years, he explained that the previous Tutor told him to take it home and grow on for 10 years and this was the result.
It started as a stick in a pot and ended up an old stick in a pot !!!Nuf Said
cheers
Dave