AusBonsai

Hi, firstly, thanks to everyone who replied to my initial post.
well I went ahead an defoliated my little ficus. It revealed a pretty nice taper for its size and girth. My next step will be to wire some of the branches and get some more movement in the upper trunk. The first thing I don't like about this tree are the many thin twigs and woody off shoots and the branches are all over the place. I would really like to clean it up and wire some more movement in the upper part of the trunk and straigthen some of the thicker branches out. However, having said that, if I want to grow this on and put into a grow box, can I still wire it and give it a basic shape? or is it a case of once wired, thats it?
I am learning a lot on this forum and I appreciated any help afforded me on this subject
you guys rock!

Merry Xmas

Adrian

Nice
You can certainly Wire it now and put in a grow box. It will set in place easily and the branches will be much easier to bend to shape. Just keep an eye on it so the wire does not cut in and scar, but with Figs it does not need to be on long to do its job

You can also Cut back hard to develop taper and shape too.

Ken

ADO wrote:Hi, firstly, thanks to everyone who replied to my initial post.
well I went ahead an defoliated my little ficus. It revealed a pretty nice taper for its size and girth. My next step will be to wire some of the branches and get some more movement in the upper trunk. The first thing I don't like about this tree are the many thin twigs and woody off shoots and the branches are all over the place. I would really like to clean it up and wire some more movement in the upper part of the trunk and straigthen some of the thicker branches out. However, having said that, if I want to grow this on and put into a grow box, can I still wire it and give it a basic shape? or is it a case of once wired, thats it?
I am learning a lot on this forum and I appreciated any help afforded me on this subject
you guys rock!

Merry Xmas

Adrian

Hi Adrian,

The basic principle of wiring applies to all trees. This principle is that if you can bend it, you can wire it. Sometimes it takes a bit of extra oompf to get wiring to hold, but the principle stands. What you need to do is check whether you can bend the bits you want to wire, and then anticipate how much thicker it can get before wiring becomes difficult. Ficus is a pretty bendy tree, but be warned if you put it in a grow box, it ain't gonna hang around!! In fact it is going to thicken quickly, so be very careful to check any wiring for wire bite as the tree grows. Once you plant it, it will probably sulk for a week or two before it get legs (or should I say roots) and then don't get caught off guard by a sudden growth spurt! Bite is ugly as can be!

Remember that wiring a tree is a means to an end, and it is not the only one. By putting the tree in a grow bow you are trying to fatten the trunk, and to do that, you have to really let the tree grow. The liklihood is that you are going to want to grow branches out now that you will probably cut off either completely, or nearly completely in a few years once the trunk has thickened. Most of your branching now is going to be useless for anything but the fattening of the trunk. Wiring it is therefore futile. I'd suggest that you get an idea in your head now for how thick you want the trunk, and then grow it hard and fast until you are 90% there. Then you can start to work on your branch structure.

If on the other hand you are talking about wiring the trunk for shape, consider two options, a.) wiring it, and b.) trunk chopping. Trunk chopping will give you more dramatic movement which is often pleasing on a trunk. It saves the problem of wire bite, and if the tree is in a grow box, it is probably as good as, if not a better option. It's always painful to chop a trunk, but the end result is more than likely worth it. It all depends on the design you are after.

When thickening the trunk in the grow box, leave more branches down low and fewer higher up the trunk. This will give you exaggerated taper in the future. If you leave too many branches higher up, you'll just end up with a thick trunk with not enough taper.

If the tree is roughly the end height you want it to be now, choose a front and then keep as many low branches at the back of the tree as possible. These you will grow out to a meter or even more in length as sacrifice branches. If you can keep the main sacrifice branches at the rear of the trunk, it will minimise the obviousness of scarring later on once they have been removed. When you have the tree in the grow box, face the back of the tree north. That will promote budding on that side of the tree, and give you more branches to work with for sacrifice and thickening.

Hope this helps, and I'm open to correction from our more experienced members!

Merry Christmas,

Andrew

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I understand what Andrew said about wiring and putting in a grow box. Maybe a trunk chop will be the way to go. I can then put this tree into a styro bos with dynamic lifter. if I was to put in a grow box, what kind of soil is best?

Can anyone suggest a good place to chop this fig?

There are 3 places I think may be good places to start indicated by colored lines. I am favoring the lowest one.

or should I just put the whole thing in a grow box (although I suspect that a trunk chop will make a thicker trunk)?
Again, thanks so much for all your advice guys. I look forward to seeing your replies and learning more

P.S Merry Xmas

Instead of chopping where you suggest, I would suggest chopping at the black line I've drawn. Then the branch on the right would be wired up and to the left to become your new leader:

Hi, if you do trunk chop, I like your middle line (yellow one).
No offence to The Ficus Guy, just my personal take...not trying to confuse the situation for you ADO.
Cheers, Dario.

Personally, since you are fairly new to bonsai Adrian, i would recomend that you do not chop this tree at all. It has good natural taper already and some small amounts of wiring would set a great basic structure for you. People can get over carried away with the whole trunk chop thing, it's not absolutely necessary all the time. I would get something different to grow on in the ground and keep this one as a learning tree/trainer, put it into a fair sized bonsai pot and enjoy learning about the way ficus grow. There's so much to learn about them.

Well the reason I suggested he chops at my black line is so that he has a leader after the chop. If he chops at the yellow line what is going to be his new leader? The branch on the left may be too big to wire into an upright position. Just my thoughts.

follow your gut!. the least you can do is learn more.. there will be many more ficus
NS

If you do decide to trunk chop and do it at the yellow line, The Ficus Guy may well be correct...

The Ficus Guy wrote:Well the reason I suggested he chops at my black line is so that he has a leader after the chop. If he chops at the yellow line what is going to be his new leader? The branch on the left may be too big to wire into an upright position. Just my thoughts.

If this is the case though, there are ways around that potential problem such as tilting the tree to the right a little and also cutting back to a secondary branch to get the change in direction and further taper, using it as your new leader.
Anyway, I was not having a go at you mate, just giving another option.
Adrian, best of luck with this fig whatever direction you decide to take it in...be sure to let us know!
NaturalSelection may well be right in his advice...

NaturalSelection wrote:follow your gut!. the least you can do is learn more.. there will be many more ficus
NS

Good luck and enjoy the process!
Cheers, Dario,

ADO wrote:Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I understand what Andrew said about wiring and putting in a grow box. Maybe a trunk chop will be the way to go. I can then put this tree into a styro bos with dynamic lifter. if I was to put in a grow box, what kind of soil is best?

Can anyone suggest a good place to chop this fig?

There are 3 places I think may be good places to start indicated by colored lines. I am favoring the lowest one.

or should I just put the whole thing in a grow box (although I suspect that a trunk chop will make a thicker trunk)?

trunk chop .JPG

Again, thanks so much for all your advice guys. I look forward to seeing your replies and learning more

P.S Merry Xmas

For me, I would chop even higher than your Blue line.
At the Bunch of branches above there, you will have a great new leader already in place to use. This would give nice even taper all the way from the soil to that leader, but with nice movement as well. This will result in a taller tree, but I prefer them taller anyway

Quite a few options with this tree

Ken

Dario wrote: Anyway, I was not having a go at you mate, just giving another option.

Oh no, I understand. Not a problem

thanks so much for all your input. So many ideas and I like the fact that I have options on this. Also, there are more Ficus where this came from!!

anway, my Xmas gut feeling is that I should perform some sort of chop/reduction and train a new leader. so here are some more questions coming your way (and again, I truly appreciate it! )

1. Ken, if i were to cut above the blue line, how far up should I do it and how do I select a good leader?

2. I have played around with the photos showing a crude virt of what the ficus might look like chopped at the blue line and the other photo points out a couple of leaders that might be ok. but again, I am unsure but teetering on the verge of at or above the blue line.

3. If i were to chop , should I repot into a grow box first and then work on it? seems logical?

4. when I do the actual chop, from what I have read, it is done on an angle and the wound is made a little concave to hasten healing? is that right?

5. Once the chop is complete and a new leader is chosen, I take it i will wire this up so it becomes a part of the trunk taper? or do i just chop the leader short too?

6 what about all the other branches? do i chop them short and remove some completely?

I am truly grateful for all the advice here and I am excited about the prospect of watching this tree grow and maybe become a good bonsai

so thanks again and I hope there aren't too many questions there.

cheers

ADrian

Nope Ado.Higher than that, See pic
Cleaned out all the branches going the wrong way and shortened them all so the regrow and you can generate taper and ramification in them
Ken

Hi Ken,
thanks a lot for you excellent picture and clarification. Unfortunately I stupidly and unkowlingly lopped off the very leader you alluded too (see picture below). dont ask how The lesson I have learned is to leave lopping branches off until a plan is hatched and you are sure!!

anyway, I have tried to salvage the situation by showing where I made the mistake and also an alternative leader just a bit further down. I have made a quick virt with the new leader. Unfortunately its not as slanted as the one I lopped off but can I wire it and make that the new leader???

again, thanks Ken + everyone else - i am learning a lot and keen to learn more!