AusBonsai

Hi you guy`s out there, does anyone know whether the ingredients for Boons soil mix are available in Australia, I have been on his website and his Black Pines look so healthy, even bought his DVD`S but he mentions they grow in a mix better without potting mix. (soil)
I was wondering whether the following are available especially in the Sydney area(I would not be breaking copywrite rules would I, if I try to use the same mix.

1 part lava rock.
1 part pumice.
1 part akadama.
a cup of horticultural charcoal. (easily obtained)
a cup of decomposed granite. ?
Would appreciate any help thanks or if necessary an alternate mix that is proven to work

Hi Reddoggy
Thought some one would have been able to help you on your question, I think it is a very good one as I have a vested interest, I would not mind knowing that too, as at the moment I am just using plugger,I think it is made by Debco which is not too bad but seems to not drain as well as I would like.
By the way I have heard Boon is coming out to Melbourne in May should be good workshop.
Paul

Scott is the person to ask about this,,shoot him a pm mate,


viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9957&p=106011&hilit=+boon#p106011

As far as I know, everything is available except Lava Rock, Just depends on where you are, and will all be expensive
I started out trying to get the ingredients for Boon's mix about 5 years ago, and have now settled on just Diatomite/Zeolite as I is well performing and cheap.

Ken

I use Boon mix and have for 2-3 years. I have found that it works great for me. I tried Diatomite/Zeolite, I found that it was too wet, and Boon mix just works better for my trees.

I have settled on not using lava(soft scoria), as it is hard to find in my area.

A mix of Pumice, Akadama, Granite, and Charcoal works just fine.

Pumice supplier in Sydney:
https://www.australianperlite.com/pumice/horticulture/

I sell Akadama, $28 per bag in Canberra:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9406#p101133

...and Granite comes from a landscaping store.

One of the main reasons I think that inorganic mixes work better, is that they get sifted to remove the fines - it does wonders!

Scott Roxburgh wrote: I tried Diatomite/Zeolite, I found that it was too wet,

Hey Scott that is soo Funny Most comments from people I hear re diatomite is that it cannot hold Moisture so must be no good

Interesting you find it too wet, but the ACT a fair bit milder in winter than Sydney ( at least in winter).
When was it too wet? Summer or winter?

Ken

Scott - I too found a mix of Diatomite and Zeolite stayed too wet, and as a consequesce I have lost a few trees. Maybe its the wet season we have had but I don't think so. I have reverted back to an older mix (which is OK, but not perfect) I was using until I can find a really suitable mix for my trees.

Over the last 6 years or so I have followed and experimented with many different soil mediums. I have seen and critically thought about all the arguments and data that has been put forward here in Australia and abroad.
Personally even though we are only beginners, as far as documenting this I think Ken and myself have been at the fore front of sourcing and trying new mediums.
There are so many variables when it comes to analyzing mediums that anyone stating that a medium does not work because >>>>> sends alarm bells ringing.
Trees will grow well in any medium, it depends less on climate and more on technique, care habits and sifting.
A medium such as diatomite and zeolite will never hold too much water in any climate. In fact any medium graded to a reasonable size particle will never hold too much water as the air will circulate around the particles.
Even a medium that breaks down faster than others will usually last long enough for the roots to colonize and create structure. Unless the tree is in poor health.
This is one of the main factors in medium discrepancy. Any medium will only drain so much. Then it will be up to the tree to use up the water that left. If the tree is not healthy it will not take up much water and the medium will stay wet MUCH longer.
The best thing you can purchase to improve your medium is a sifter

Edit: one thing I have missed in this is that a certain medium may need extra care in fertilisation or such. Not accounting for this could lower the health of the tree in the medium and hence use less water and cause the medium to stay wetter longer. I still classify this in care habits although it directly relates to the medium you are using.

Ken,

Generally in winter it was too wet. I don't have any trees left in that mix but I don't think it would have stood up to (unusually high) rain that we have had this year and last.

Rather than the Diatomite, I found that the Zeolite was the component that kept the mix too wet, it seemed like it held water in the pot (between the particles) rather than soaking it up, like the Diatomite did.

I don't have a problem with the Diatomite, in fact i quite like it, but just have found what I feel is a good mix for me.

Brett,

I think Grant also has to be up there at the fore front

I also agree that in theory trees will grow well in any medium, but some will always out perform others.

Bretts wrote:A medium such as Diatomite and Zeolite will never hold too much water in any climate. In fact any medium graded to a reasonable size particle will never hold too much water as the air will circulate around the particles...

The best thing you can purchase to improve your medium is a sifter

I disagree that Zeolite doesn't hold too much water, although I have to admit that I never graded it, just washed it...I'd like to see how a mix of Diatomite/pumice goes, it think it would perform very well...sifted of course!

I can agree with much of what you say Scott
But I did specificly say "documented" Being on the forums for as long as I have been doing bonsai I was suprised to hear from yourself that some people in our club (Canberra) which I visit very infrequently had been trying mediums such as crushed brick for as long as I had and maybe even longer.
But as far as I know it was never documented until years later and Grant has only documented in the last few years.
I was also suprised to hear that some guys down in Victoria where trying a few different inorganic mediums. But this all happened after a few years of Ken and myself documenting our search for better mediums.
I would be very interested to know who started trying new mediums in Australuia but as far as I know it was Ken and myself about 7 years ago.

Hi.

This thread is why i love coming to this web site

I do not get any other information about Bonsai, from any other sauce than from here.

Regards.
Irish.

Scott I don't mean to pick on you but it is comments such as this that I find make no sense.

Rather than the Diatomite, I found that the Zeolite was the component that kept the mix too wet, it seemed like it held water in the pot (between the particles) rather than soaking it up, like the Diatomite did.

Zeolite is known to soak up at least some water. But what you suggest in this comment is that it would soak up less water that crushed granit that soakes up NO water at all. I come to this conclusion because over 7 years ago crushed granite was expected to give great drainage qualities.

The fact as I see it is that a container of 3 mm zeolite will have the same but most probably more more air space than a container of 3mm crushed granite as the zeolite will suck up more water than the crushed granite causing more air pockets.
There are many variables from here that can give varied results that may seem like the zeolite holds too much water but ibn actual fact it is other variables caused by zeolite besides water holding capacity.
My problem is people take a much to simplistic approach to whether mediums work or not. Mediums may not work with your care programme but may work very well with an others habits in care.
Wlater Pall explains this well by saying do exactly as I say or do nothing as I say. A medium is integrated with a whole concept of care regime. That is the only way it will work correctly and this can even be variable over each species.

Generally in winter it was too wet. I don't have any trees left in that mix but I don't think it would have stood up to (unusually high) rain that we have had this year and last.

Here again I don't mean to pick on you Scott as I have alot of respect for what you are doing but for me it is long past worrying about trees that are rained on too much over Winter.
I was very concerned in my first Winter of bonsai. Why is it that a tree needs less watering in Winter when it naturally rains more. As a beginner I got the answer that a tree can take a joke.
But a stressed tree cannot take a joke as well. There are many different variables when it comes to soil. A tree that is not performing well maybe be a cutting or a recently collected tree in Winter will need a soil that drains very fast so It can be often replenished to avoid stale air and bacteria. Yet a tree that is growing strong in Summer will need a soil that hold alot of water or watering several times a day. There are many different cuttings mediums and understanding why one works better for different applications is much the same as why some work better in various bonsai applications.
Hopefully this brings up the many variables in between the many stages of tree stress compared to water holding capacity that makes blanket statements very unreliable.
If a medium works for some one else but not you then I think you should ask why has it not worked for me. It is well known that any medium will work in the right circumstance. Why does that medium not work for you and what medium does suit your circumstance is a good question to be asking.

reddoggy wrote:Hi you guy`s out there, does anyone know whether the ingredients for Boons soil mix are available in Australia, I have been on his website and his Black Pines look so healthy, even bought his DVD`S but he mentions they grow in a mix better without potting mix. (soil)
I was wondering whether the following are available especially in the Sydney area(I would not be breaking copywrite rules would I, if I try to use the same mix.

1 part lava rock.
1 part pumice.
1 part akadama.
a cup of horticultural charcoal. (easily obtained)
a cup of decomposed granite. ?
Would appreciate any help thanks or if necessary an alternate mix that is proven to work

Hi Reddoggy,

1) Lava Rock: Easily obtained in Sydney but smallest grade is 10mm, which is too large for most uses. It is sold as "scoria" and can be bought from most places. "The Plant Bug" on the highway at Mt Colah stocks it.
2) Pumice: As stated earlier in this thread.
3) Akadama: Not available commercially. Every now and then people on this website get together and do a bulk order. Keep an eye on threads and hopefully some will become available over winter.
4) Horticultural Charcoal: As you said, readily available. The Plant Bug sell it, as does KMART in Hornsby.
5) Deco Granite: Readily available from landscape suppliers, but very expensive and must be purchased in large amounts. This is just used as a grit to open up the mix. When I need something for this purposes I either use zeolite (has the benefit of holding onto nutrients really well) or Nepean River Sand. The zeolite is best purchased from Ray Nesci Bonsai Centre in Dural. The NRS is good, but doesn't have the nutrient holding capacity. It also contains a lot of silt and needs to be washed first. It is cheap though. Able Timber & Hardware sell bags of it for roughly $4 each. They are located at 1 Brennan Close in the industrial area in Hornsby/Asquith.

Good luck!
Joel

Scott.
The only time I sift my medium is when i wash and reuse it. New ingredients, i never bother with washing or sifting.
I spread my used mix out on an old flyscreen and hose off. All the particles smaller than about 1 mm fall thru and leaving me to use the remainder again.
Also think that Pumice might be a good addition to any mix, so one will have to head over the other side of the city and get some.

@watto Re the loss of trees to being too wet in diatomite. All this summer, I have watered everyday by timer as normal. I have never put the system on hold due to the rain we have had and have had no trees suffer. we have had days of rain and at the end of Jan, we had almost 3 weeks of rain every day, and I watered as well. The humidity here3 has been high for the last 2 months and rarely a day over 30.

My trees have never looked so good in fact. I have a few trees in small pots that will fit in 1 hand or less,and they have not had to be on a Sand tray it has been so wet and mild.

ken