AusBonsai

Hi I bought this elm yesterday and I need your advice guys
virts will be welcome
I did one but I'm not sure

Lovely Stock
Where did you get it from?

I would remove the top section and use the existing branch s the new apes to give some taper and then Regrow new branches. Tilt to the Left at the next repot.
Not much to do but grow branches and refine foliage

Ken

ps Forgot to add a back branch or 2 to fill it in

Des,

I'd consider taking everything off except the first branch. That would give a smaller tree, but with fantastic movement! I guess it's up to you as to what you want from it. I find the curve above the first branch a bit monotonous, but that's just me.

Cheers,

Andrew

I'm voting with Andrew. That would give you a small tree with good movement and great taper. There are however many ways to go with this tree.

Air layer off the upper trunk down to the first branch, then you will have two trees to play with.

I've been waiting to see if anyone came up with any advice except chopping and/or cutting. Except for Ken, no-one said anything really constructive.
OK, here we have a tree on which the previous owner has done a good job for many years. It has good movement and beautiful, furrowed, aged bark, which is worth a ton in bonsai art. Yet what do some people here say? Reduce a tree with good movement to get a small tree with good movement (is it really?? pretty coarse, with that strong bend, imo) and with a big wound, which won't heal for the next 10 years. Never mind the beautiful bark.
Indeed, work needs to be done to get taper. The tree looks like it has been neglected for a couple of years, hence the dense branching around the apex. Don't forget that elms are strongly apically dominant, which always results in a clustering of branches up top, if the tree isn't properly pruned, and therefore in a thickening of the trunk at that spot. Sometimes it even ends up as an inverted taper. Luckily, this doesn't appear to be the case here. Like Ken, I would advise creating a new apex by choosing a top branch, but I would go a little higher and choose a branch from the cluster, so as to keep part of the upper curve. In other words, Des, I agree with your first virtual. There's nothing wrong in continuing the job done by the previous owner, it means solid bonsai work which will give you a beautiful, unblemished tree in 2 - 3 years' time.
It will also do justice to the earlier work, and that is a bonsai ideal. Passing trees on through the generations should always be a goal. Just think of the masterly bonsai created by Australian bonsai artists who have passed away, and which are now cared for by younger artists.

BEFORE YOU CHOP AND CUT, THINK!

Lisa

I would go slowly. You have a lot of new branches to work with and, pardon me if i am incorrect, you are a little new to Bonsai.
I would be gently wiring ALL your new shoots into place and thinning out the top a little. The heavy bottom branch can be taken off to the second off branch and get some back budding happening. Cut back the right hand branch a little more and start to develop one of the off shoots as your new branch. Wiring ALL the new shoots off the main trunk will give you a large amount of branch selection down the track and you can balance the tree better. Easy to cut off later than trying to grow new ones. The tree has lots of potential but do not be in a hurry. You are ten years off a good tree if you have foresight now. You are still working on main branching let alone secondary's and tertiary's.
P.S..sorry..dont do virts.

LLK wrote:I've been waiting to see if anyone came up with any advice except chopping and/or cutting. Except for Ken, no-one said anything really constructive.
OK, here we have a tree on which the previous owner has done a good job for many years. It has good movement and beautiful, furrowed, aged bark, which is worth a ton in bonsai art. Yet what do some people here say? Reduce a tree with good movement to get a small tree with good movement (is it really?? pretty coarse, with that strong bend, imo) and with a big wound, which won't heal for the next 10 years. Never mind the beautiful bark.
Indeed, work needs to be done to get taper. The tree looks like it has been neglected for a couple of years, hence the dense branching around the apex. Don't forget that elms are strongly apically dominant, which always results in a clustering of branches up top, if the tree isn't properly pruned, and therefore in a thickening of the trunk at that spot. Sometimes it even ends up as an inverted taper. Luckily, this doesn't appear to be the case here. Like Ken, I would advise creating a new apex by choosing a top branch, but I would go a little higher and choose a branch from the cluster, so as to keep part of the upper curve. In other words, Des, I agree with your first virtual. There's nothing wrong in continuing the job done by the previous owner, it means solid bonsai work which will give you a beautiful, unblemished tree in 2 - 3 years' time.
It will also do justice to the earlier work, and that is a bonsai ideal. Passing trees on through the generations should always be a goal. Just think of the masterly bonsai created by Australian bonsai artists who have passed away, and which are now cared for by younger artists.

BEFORE YOU CHOP AND CUT, THINK!

Lisa

If this tree is mine, this is my vision for it in next 5 years, considering it is an elm with fast growth rate.

I suck at virts of all nature - however when I get home I will convey, though a series of random lines on a peice of old paper, a possible direction for this tree.

Looking forward to the surprised looks when people see just how bad one can be at drawing.. (me).

-Mo

MoGanic wrote: Looking forward to the surprised looks when people see just how bad one can be at drawing.. (me).

-Mo

The only Bad virt / Sketch is the one never done

The only way for me to visualise the direction to take is to take a photo of the tree and Play. I have printed a photo and drawn on that which is a viable alternative to using software or a drawig from scratch.

I agree with Lisa, and when I did my virt and posted it, was quite surprised to realise just how much of the upper part of the bend reduced the visual impact of it. Having to take so much off the top, back to the existing branch there for the apex makes the trunk bend look quite straight.

Ken

LLK wrote:I've been waiting to see if anyone came up with any advice except chopping and/or cutting. Except for Ken, no-one said anything really constructive.
OK, here we have a tree on which the previous owner has done a good job for many years. It has good movement and beautiful, furrowed, aged bark, which is worth a ton in bonsai art. Yet what do some people here say? Reduce a tree with good movement to get a small tree with good movement (is it really?? pretty coarse, with that strong bend, imo) and with a big wound, which won't heal for the next 10 years. Never mind the beautiful bark.
Indeed, work needs to be done to get taper. The tree looks like it has been neglected for a couple of years, hence the dense branching around the apex. Don't forget that elms are strongly apically dominant, which always results in a clustering of branches up top, if the tree isn't properly pruned, and therefore in a thickening of the trunk at that spot. Sometimes it even ends up as an inverted taper. Luckily, this doesn't appear to be the case here. Like Ken, I would advise creating a new apex by choosing a top branch, but I would go a little higher and choose a branch from the cluster, so as to keep part of the upper curve. In other words, Des, I agree with your first virtual. There's nothing wrong in continuing the job done by the previous owner, it means solid bonsai work which will give you a beautiful, unblemished tree in 2 - 3 years' time.
It will also do justice to the earlier work, and that is a bonsai ideal. Passing trees on through the generations should always be a goal. Just think of the masterly bonsai created by Australian bonsai artists who have passed away, and which are now cared for by younger artists.

BEFORE YOU CHOP AND CUT, THINK!

Lisa

Lisa, as I see it, the branches are a bit heavy and the taper of the tree is minimal. So a drastic restyling would produce a superb bonsai relatively quickly. This variety is a fast grower, so a drastic prune would certainly improve it.

This is a corky bark elm and was cut down to the first branch many years ago. Being a corky bark elm it healed over very quickly and the process has been repeated many times up the trunk. It does give a good result by chopping back hard with the right species.

grant

Brian wrote:

LLK wrote:I've been waiting to see if anyone came up with any advice except chopping and/or cutting. Except for Ken, no-one said anything really constructive.
OK, here we have a tree on which the previous owner has done a good job for many years. It has good movement and beautiful, furrowed, aged bark, which is worth a ton in bonsai art. Yet what do some people here say? Reduce a tree with good movement to get a small tree with good movement (is it really?? pretty coarse, with that strong bend, imo) and with a big wound, which won't heal for the next 10 years. Never mind the beautiful bark.
Indeed, work needs to be done to get taper. The tree looks like it has been neglected for a couple of years, hence the dense branching around the apex. Don't forget that elms are strongly apically dominant, which always results in a clustering of branches up top, if the tree isn't properly pruned, and therefore in a thickening of the trunk at that spot. Sometimes it even ends up as an inverted taper. Luckily, this doesn't appear to be the case here. Like Ken, I would advise creating a new apex by choosing a top branch, but I would go a little higher and choose a branch from the cluster, so as to keep part of the upper curve. In other words, Des, I agree with your first virtual. There's nothing wrong in continuing the job done by the previous owner, it means solid bonsai work which will give you a beautiful, unblemished tree in 2 - 3 years' time.
It will also do justice to the earlier work, and that is a bonsai ideal. Passing trees on through the generations should always be a goal. Just think of the masterly bonsai created by Australian bonsai artists who have passed away, and which are now cared for by younger artists.

BEFORE YOU CHOP AND CUT, THINK!

Lisa

Lisa, as I see it, the branches are a bit heavy and the taper of the tree is minimal. So a drastic restyling would produce a superb bonsai relatively quickly. This variety is a fast grower, so a drastic prune would certainly improve it.

Im with Brian all the way on this. No doubt about it there is no other way if you want to make the best tree of this in the future! There is nothing signifacant enough to worry about any respect to the previous grower except a thankyou for a nice base and first branch. This tree is not in the league of paying homage to its predecessors. Oh did i mention thanks for the airlayer too. Therefor there is nothing left to advise on, the answer is very clear in my mind. As a young artist they should rip trees up like this and make better ones out of them. The trick is to never pay too much for them just cause they got good bark and a bend.

Great example Grant !!!

Firstly Thank you Lisa
I return to this from because of you. Im so sorry to say but most of people just advice chop it or air layer.
magpie thank you for your virt mate
I agree to you guys to be honest If I want a smaller tree I would buy a smaller tree but I want something large in my collection thats why I took this one.
There is so many thing is waiting on this tree but first thing is first I just reduc e branch sizes. still lots of work waiting but at least its a beginning.

in couple of month I will watch how tree will respond.

maybe I can add extra branch to right to get balance
what do you think ?