AusBonsai

I got this Cedar for $15 from a general nursery. I was going to cut it back to a low branch but after seeing a few topics on here about big bending I thought I looked at this differently.

Here it is before....

I found it was quite flexible even at nearly 20 mm thick so I put on some thick wires and bent and twisted.
I have a few questions, but dinner is ready so will have to come back.

Just watch your wiring over time. Cedrus deodara takes a long time to harden in the shape you want, so don't let the wiring scar the tree.

If you let the wire cut in just a little bit that will assist in holding it in your new style. Good start.

Thanks guys.

I did this a few days ago and after read this topic where it was said that they take some time to set. It was also suggested that by damaging the tree a bit the callus that would form would help it set. And as you don't want to form scarring on the trunk that bending it beyond what you want you can wound the tree on the inside. Well I pushed and twisted this one quite a lot so just maybe......

It was also suggested that wire scars take a long time to disappear on C. deodara.

Is the use of raffia on trees like Black Pines to protect the bark from wire marks or from the bending process itself? Obviously I didn't use any and I haven't before, but when I had a bit of a bend of this tree it was so flexible I thought would not need to bother. Unfortunately that the flexibility is also the reason they take so long to set.

And how long is a long time? Are we talking many months? A year? A number of years??

I assume spring would be a good time to repot.

And one last thing, I left the lowest branch on and supported it upright to use as a sacrifice branch. I presume this will be suitable for a C. deodara?

With any tree, the aim is to leave the wire on as long as possible - i.e until you can just see it start to pinch a little bit. Cedars take longer to set, so this just means wire, check for bite, remove wire, rewire. No one wiring will get the shape down. Unfortunately a timeframe is difficult to provide as no one can guarantee the growth rate of the tree. The faster it grows new wood in the current shape the faster it sets - fertilizing, proper root care and repotting assist in maintaining a good rate of growth.

With Black Pines, raffia is generally not used (i.e I wouldnt use it) because its bark stretches as do the fibers in its wood. This would be easier to explain in person, but I think there is a Ryan Neil video on bending that covers this on YouTube somewhere...

Also, yes that sacrifice looks low enough to thicken the trunk without reducing taper. Just keep an eye on the rest of the foliage and if it gets too weak (i.e u notice less growth on the rest, more growth on the sacrifice or a combination) then you need to look at trimming the sacrifice just a little.

Yeah, personally, I've never been a big fan of wiring like this with deodara. I just use anchoring, so you just tie a section and anchor it down to the pot. I actually use this method on nearly all my bonsai, as I prefer the natural look you get from this, rather than the wishy washy curves of wiring that nearly always seem to produce that 'classic fake bonsai' look that a lot of people strive for.

Basically, what has already been said as above is correct, I have many deodaras, and their growth rates all seem to be different, inevitably some have harder trunks than others, but most of them are the same age stock, so there is no definitive answer for that one. Just constantly pinch the ends of the growth to get compact growth, as this species dearly loves to produce ugly long branches with spaced internodes. If you just make a habit of constant pruning, you will not get as thick a trunk this way, but you will produce a much better compact growth which will look a lot better.

And just a tip,.... if you are going to try your hand at these, don't cut back hard, and leave with very little foliage. They can sometimes give up the ghost due to this. Generally they do well, but on the odd occasion, they just give up. Probably best to cut back in 2 stages in future, but.... that means more patience, which I can say... is hard to put into practice too

If you go to a nursery, you can often get much thicker trunks at the base, and I've noticed from experience, that even in a large pot, with this species about 1 in every 20 or so will produce a nice - out of proportion to the tree - much thicker base trunk, which quickly tapers into a thin (very chopable) trunk about 15cm high. You have to get lucky, but when you find one, you'll know what I mean. It is like the God of Bonsai has shone down on you in that moment and blessed you with his Deodara. Or more likely, it was kept in a small pot for too long or accidentally broken off, then potted into a larger pot. In which case, it may be more environmental than evolutionary, but when I get round to it, I'll post some pics.

Thanks MoGanic and bonsaibuddyman.

I agree with you bbm. I'm not a fan of wishy washy curves either. But there was a curve in the base that I wanted to continue and the thick bit at the top going to the right was to be removed back to the new leadear once it has set which will reduce the curviness some what. I always thought that it would spring back when I released it so thought the curve would be less..... curvy?!?!

I will repot this spring and so will have another look at it again. As has been said by Alpine in his threadthat wire marks, even slight ones, in C. deodara can become worse over time. Is there a way to hold the tree in place without producing wire marks?

Thanks
Dan

dansai wrote:Is there a way to hold the tree in place without producing wire marks?

Thanks
Dan

Wiring with as thin a wire as possible and not wiring too tightly help to reduce marking.
If the tree is very sensitive to bark damage however, the best thing is to keep a close eye on the wire to ensure it doesnt bite at all.