AusBonsai

this first one i chopped afew months ago. so im looking for advice on how to carve the new leader to make it look tapered
the new leader.. could i keep the shoot on the left as the first branch??
second tree
seems to be no decent lead on this one so im thinking next spring ill chop it back. im not sure about any of this but i know i need to start asking questions.

any advice is always welcome..

Aaron.

For the first one-I would lose the branch that goes off to the left. I wouldn't worry about carving taper into it yet, let it grow and fatten etc.
For the second one-you could keep that first branch to the right as new leader and layer the top off.
Just my 2c...

with deciudous trees, build the trunk first, then worry about the branching.

Grow hard for a year or 2, then trunk chop. Grow the new leader for a year or 2, then trunk chop again. rinse and repeat unti8l you are happy with the trunk.
Then start to grow the branches where they are needed.

there is no shortcut to get taper in the trunk when growing from young stock.

Ken

Could it be that the pic labelled back is really a close up of the front?

I would cut the large trunk again at more of an angle behind the new shoots. That will already make it look more tapered, then let the new leader grow freely all year. It will thicken most near the old trunk and should look reasonable by the end of the year. If not allow free growth again until it does look ok.
I would keep the left shoot and start to train it as a branch. You can let it grow a bit then cut back to the 1st leaves to start it branching. Keep cutting it back or it will get too thick near the base.

I'm not sure what the problem is with the second tree. Looks like a good start for an informal upright. Might just need to cut back the 1st branch on the right so that the other leader can gain dominance and start to grow.

yer the photo is meant to be the close up of front.. oops.

the problem im having with this one i dont see a decent leader. there is one i could use but its more at the back of the tree.
i was hope i could use something lower on the tree because there is a straight section in the top. then theres the ugly scar at the back of the tree. Neil do u think i should remove the sacrifice branch??
i had in tended to make it a twin trunk and air layer just under where the two meet so i could get rid of that scar.

Hi Bazron , mate that chop is very ordinary , i would cut it almost vertically to aid the taper as Neil has said . Leave the sacrifice branch to do the job required , ie fatten the base . The scar on the back will heal well with the help of the sacrifice branch and power feeding the tree to promote growth . As kc has said build them up cut them back , not continuously unless you are developing a branch as Neil stated . Never be in too much of a hurry they only grow so much a year , but they can be forced to fatten with plenty of growing points , branches , shoots , help the roots .

Cheers Alpine

re 2nd tree: A straight section is only straight in relation to the ultimate size of the tree. With this one the way it is I see a larger tree. you have not given us a scale so hard to judge how big it is but roughly 1/3 of height is a reasonable height for 1st branch. If your existing 1st branch is higher than that think would it be possible to go outside good guidelines or can you cut to make it lower? Also look at a slight change of front - try rotating slightly clockwise to make the trunk go away and left rather than straight left??? I see 1st branch left, back branch where that ugly cut is, maybe a right branch between?? The upright branch/trunk on the right could be removed completely or might make a low right branch?
I think Isitangus' idea of cutting at the sacrifice branch would leave the trunk too straight and upright when it thickens a bit more.

Leader at the back will no make any difference at this stage. If you tidy that stub now it will be healed in a year or 2 well before this tree is ready to pot up or show off There will be more cuts to heal before then too.

If you want to grow a smaller tree then by all means cut lower - tridents will bud pretty well and who knows what will grow for you but this option is always hit and miss.