AusBonsai

Hi,

I was given these two a number of years ago from tube stock and was told they were white pine.
Can someone confirm what they are.
Since i had them i just stuck them in a couple of pots and pruned every now and then. Recently slip potted them as they were pot bound and not much soil left. One of them started to slowly lay itself over to what it is today and i just left it.

Can anyone see any potential in these.

Regards
Rudy

Hi Rudy, these are Himalayan White pine - Pinus Wallichiana . They do have long needles and tend to become leggy but with some serious work i sure they will become reasonably good Bonsai. The soft green bark does mark easy so care should be used when wiring .

Like several of the long needle pines aim for a larger tree .

When requesting an I.D try to follow the [I.D required ]format to keep our forum consistent and tidy and to Assist the Moderators updating the topic to [ SOLVED ] .

Cheers Alpineart

Thanks for the ID Alpineart.

I never noticed the sticky on tree ID format. Thanks for pointing it out.

Probably just leave these in pots. I'm going to do some research and see how these grow in the wild and possible stick one in the ground.

Regards
Rudy

Alpine, I'm curious how you are so certain? I'm not doubting you at all. I'm the first to admit I have virtually no knowledge of pines but I'm very impressed by your confidence. I thought perhaps it was a P. koraiensis, though I am probably biased given it's the only pine I own.

I look forward to seeing these two trees progress Rudy.

Joel

Hi Joel , mate to my knowledge the growth habit , bark colour and texture , shoot colour are that of the Himalayan Pine . The other pine that has similar bark and shoot colour is the Monticola . While these pines remain smooth green in the bark before turning grey , i think the Korean pine shoot and bark turns brown before turning grey /brown with age .

I have been known to be wrong and if so i will apologize for a misdiagnosis .

Cheers Alpine

No chance then of it being a "Strobus" , same colour, should be five needles as well.

Grant

Hi Grant , it could be another suggestion Eastern white and Western white are close relations . A quick check from Rudy should allay all doubt .Simply cut the needle with a very sharp knife and under a magnifying glass or similar let us know what shape the new needle is . It could be half moon 2 ridges edge only , 4 sided or half moon with 5 ridges .Pine needles come in many shapes and is one very distinct way of I.D ing Pines .Serration along the edges is another way to identify them .

Cheers Alpineart

Hmmmm. I'm starting to wonder if I didn't get my pines ID right. I'll post some photos up in another thread.

Sorry for stealing the thread Rudy...

Joel

No Problem Joel,

I have a magnifying glass somewhere. I'll cut it as soon as i find it. Do i just cut a needle in half?

Regards
Rudy

Hi Rudy , yes mate just cut the needle across without crushing it of course then view the shape of the cut . Slide you thumb and finger backwards along the needle and if it is serrated it will feel the difference between sliding the fingers forward up the needle . Again a magnifier is required to see the fine teeth like serrations .

As with the white stripe some are dotted lines some are broken lines while others have 1-2-3 white lines along the needle ,plenty of white pines out there , this is another way to correctly identify them . Yet again a magnifier is required to see the line/lines correctly . Without cones and aged bark it makes identifying them the only other methods to narrow it down . There are other things like needle twist that come into play as well .Then a combination of shape and serration is combined to give the true I.D .

Research is a must for all budding Bonsaist be it leaf shape or needle shape , colour , length etc ,etc ,etc .

Cheers Alpineart

Hi and sorry for the late reply, had a friend visit for a few days.
Found my old magnifying glass and cut a needle in half. I couldn't see much as the needle end was so small. All can add is the needle is triangular in shape, can feel not see serrations on the of the triangle edges and it appears to be have those edges a more whitish color than the other sides.

Sorry i can't add more. If this is to be a Himalayan PIne how can i tell if it a dwarf variety and how tall would a dwarf grow? If suitable i am thinking of planting in the ground as they are a lovely fresh color.

Thanks for all help the guys, really appreciated.

Regards
Rudy

Hi Rudy , a magnifier doesn't show the true shape of the needle as you now know , it needs to be high powered at least 50 times . Going on your description ,having the white strip on the leading edge it would appear to be a Himalayan .The fine needles are what my identification was based on , the Eastern and Western pines have a course needle from the new shoot unlike your tree's .

While most needles appear to be triangular , under high magnification you can see a concave inner or a flat inner face others have a convex face of the needle , I refer to the face being the widest side . Other pines such as European black pine and the Japanese black pine have half circle shaped needle , the Western shore pine has a crescent shaped needle , all appear triangular to the naked eye .

A healthy Western White pine has a 4 sided shape to the needle , still under the naked eye it appears triangular , the face being concave / convex depending on how much moisture is being retained and the back has 3 shorter flat sections still appearing to form a triangular shape overall and numerous white stripes on these smaller flat sections being the back of the needle .

As for working out if its a dwarf well i haven't bothered to study dwarf pines but the growth rate would be somewhat slower. In the ground a Himalayan can grow 150-300mm in a season depending on water , nutrients and climate . I would assume a Dwarf would be 50-100mm or there abouts in good conditions and less if potted or pot bound and neglected . I'm assuming a Dwarf would also be grafted not seed grown .

Hope this helps .

Cheers Alpineart

Thanks for the response Alpinhart.

I had no idea it was so technical. I'll just leave them in pots and place them where i can. Not going to go down the bonsai route with these.

Thanks again for the detailed help and patience, much appreciated.

Regards
Rudy