AusBonsai

I've been given the opportunity to dig a large Japanese maple (3-4 mtrs tall) I haven't seen it but been told its available if I want it. From what I've been told they tend to have large roots going to china and nothing in close. So it would seem to be a big job. My question is how much root would I need to get to make it worth while. Good time to dig now but can't really be bothered if it's to much effort and not likely to make it. The missus is going to kill me if I come home with another tree so needs to be worth the effort. Anyone dug a big maple before? Nothing comes up in the search... Thanks

Josh

Me and Gerard dug one a couple of years back... Probably about that size and yes, it's a hard dig. They really root themselves in strong but mostly laterally with a few strong downward ones. My only advice is that you seal your wounds both above and below soil level very, very soon after digging. Japanese maples seem to be highly susceptible to infection and that's exActly what killed mine. I would go for it... It will throw out new roots without too much trouble. And we don't seem to see too many big Japanese maple bonsai here in Victoria.

Every tree is different Josh so you will not know what sort of roots you will find until you start. Maples generally tend to have strong radial surface roots but they can also have strong vertical roots. the radial ones you can chop with an axe or saw but the ones underneath are a lot harder to deal with.
I have pruned a lot of maple roots and now cut the radial roots very short (length = thickness or thereabouts) and completely remove any vertical ones. By the time I have finished root pruning the tree is almost a giant cutting - no feeder roots at all. Survival rate is still around 95% for me under my conditions.

Several reasons for radical root surgery at collecting:
*Few long straight roots makes poor nebari and it is not worth having a great bonsai with poor roots.
*At collecting you will cut off 90% of the tree so this is the best time to reduce roots.

I left roots as long as possible when digging my early field grown trees because I was worried about survival. Grew them in poly boxes and developed great branching, etc but when time came to put them into pots the roots were too long and had to be cut, losing all the new feeder roots. That meant a well developed tree with great ramification that needed to start growing roots all over.

Whether a tree is worth collecting depends mostly on what the trunk is like. Plenty of low trunks that you can prune to for taper and movement = worthwhile.
Straight, thick lower trunk = don't bother

Webos wrote:Me and Gerard dug one a couple of years back... Probably about that size and yes, it's a hard dig. They really root themselves in strong but mostly laterally with a few strong downward ones. My only advice is that you seal your wounds both above and below soil level very, very soon after digging. Japanese maples seem to be highly susceptible to infection and that's exActly what killed mine. I would go for it... It will throw out new roots without too much trouble. And we don't seem to see too many big Japanese maple bonsai here in Victoria.

Thanks Webos. From all I've read maples aren't an easy dig but worth it for a good trunk. Thanks for the reminder on sealing the wounds. I had read that but forgot so thanks.

shibui wrote:Every tree is different Josh so you will not know what sort of roots you will find until you start. Maples generally tend to have strong radial surface roots but they can also have strong vertical roots. the radial ones you can chop with an axe or saw but the ones underneath are a lot harder to deal with.
I have pruned a lot of maple roots and now cut the radial roots very short (length = thickness or thereabouts) and completely remove any vertical ones. By the time I have finished root pruning the tree is almost a giant cutting - no feeder roots at all. Survival rate is still around 95% for me under my conditions.

Several reasons for radical root surgery at collecting:
*Few long straight roots makes poor nebari and it is not worth having a great bonsai with poor roots.
*At collecting you will cut off 90% of the tree so this is the best time to reduce roots.

I left roots as long as possible when digging my early field grown trees because I was worried about survival. Grew them in poly boxes and developed great branching, etc but when time came to put them into pots the roots were too long and had to be cut, losing all the new feeder roots. That meant a well developed tree with great ramification that needed to start growing roots all over.

Whether a tree is worth collecting depends mostly on what the trunk is like. Plenty of low trunks that you can prune to for taper and movement = worthwhile.
Straight, thick lower trunk = don't bother

Thanks Neil. Yeah I always love the surprise of digging a tree to find out what's underneath After seeing you prune some of your trees roots I figure a good root prune is coming up. I haven't actually seen the tree but it was described as a multi trunk so hopefully some movement and potential. Thanks

So going on the info supplied I'll give it a go and post pics when dug. Now to find the time to dig Most likely Saturday week with the way life is at the moment. Now to get it past the missus....oh that old thing, I've had that for ages.....just moved it from the back to the front


Thanks for the replies..
Josh

couple important things-----check to see if it is grafted--and if so what type of rootstock(difficult unless it's suckering )--and how far above the nebari---could determine the finished size,or whether it is worth the effort

Guy wrote:couple important things-----check to see if it is grafted--and if so what type of rootstock(difficult unless it's suckering )--and how far above the nebari---could determine the finished size,or whether it is worth the effort

Pretty sure its not grafted. As I said though, I haven't seen the tree and won't get a chance till I dig it. Pot luck I guess.

Josh

Josh, from one mad digger to another I say give it a go.
Two years ago I dug one from a garden and it is now going well. This summer I plan to give it a cut with the chain saw to set it for the future. I dug mine in late August to early September. OK, so it took me a week but there were a few big roots going next door to the tank overflow and it snowed inbetween. In the first photo that is a standard 5 ft 6 inch fence in the background so you can judge from that how tall it was.

Yep, I dug one too! Last September about 3 weeks after bud burst. It's a triple trunk and was about 2.5m tall. I don't plan on bonsaiing it as such, but it had to be rescued from my parents front yard so it's now in a big pot in my backyard and seemingly rather healthy. It was tough. It took 3 adults with picks, axes and saws about 2 hours so go prepared - happy digging!

Watto wrote:Josh, from one mad digger to another I say give it a go.
Two years ago I dug one from a garden and it is now going well. This summer I plan to give it a cut with the chain saw to set it for the future. I dug mine in late August to early September. OK, so it took me a week but there were a few big roots going next door to the tank overflow and it snowed inbetween. In the first photo that is a standard 5 ft 6 inch fence in the background so you can judge from that how tall it was.

Thanks Watto. Nice tree you have there. Snow would make it tough digging will be interesting to see where you take this.

Waltron wrote:Yep, I dug one too! Last September about 3 weeks after bud burst. It's a triple trunk and was about 2.5m tall. I don't plan on bonsaiing it as such, but it had to be rescued from my parents front yard so it's now in a big pot in my backyard and seemingly rather healthy. It was tough. It took 3 adults with picks, axes and saws about 2 hours so go prepared - happy digging!

Thanks Waltron. It will be just me and my side kick (11 yr old daughter) so could be a long day. I have some good equipment for digging so hopefully not to painful.

Thanks.
Josh.

So I went to collect the maple yesterday. Turns out there was a lot of dead wood on the tree. After looking at it for a while I decided I had driven over there so might as well dig it and see what happens. I took about an 1 1/2 hrs to dig which was pretty good. There was about 40-50 cms of good soil then solid hard rock and clay. This meant very few roots went deep. Could also possibly explain the die back. I had my older daughter with me as my usual helper was at soccer. This tree will require a lot of carving and treating of dead wood. I'll wait and see where it shoots after winter, there is some good live wood on it still, main issue will be treating the dead wood to stop it rotting more. Unfortunately the trunk I thought would be the new leader is totally dead but there are other options. This will be a long term project so it will sit in the back corner for a fair while now.

Josh

Well done mate and it is a good score. A fair bit of work to be done over the coming years but it will keep you out of trouble.

Nice work and great score

Ken

Nice find!

So, you just having a go or do you have a Horticultural back ground?


Cheers
EZ
Via Tapatalk

CoGRedeMptioN wrote:Nice find!

So, you just having a go or do you have a Horticultural back ground?


Cheers
EZ
Via Tapatalk

My grandfather had a green thumb, my mum had a green thumb and so do I. When I first left school I worked for a nursery for 5 yrs developing 5 acres of garden around the nursery.
I also worked for myself gardening/landscaping for a couple of years as well.
BUT to be honest mostly I'm just having a go. The way I look at it, the more you do the more you learn. A lot of what we do in bonsai goes against what I learnt in nursery work anyway.
When I find a tree I like I research as much as I can then go for it. Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't but I always have fun and learn something new each time.

Josh.

So envious guys, I just don't have the brawn to do what you all have. Digging and chopping them out. But I still learn with the posts you put up. Will learn more in the following posts in the coming months to learn if these trees actually recover and ramificate after the huge shock they have been put through with the dig up.
One hell of a tree.

When you dig up Josh at what point do you soak in seasol?. Season I take it to be winter?

I will have to be happy with the purchases I make.

Regards
Rae