AusBonsai

Was in our local rural produce store the other for work and discovered this product called payback and another called Alar. They are plant growth regulators. Payback is used on mangoes, avocados, apples cherries etc. Alar is used on flowering plants such as camellias. They apparently help to stunt the foliage growth to produce shorter internodes and a more compact tree. When used properly apparently doesn't affect the health or flowering/fruiting of the trees.
Payback is used on cherries to reduce internodes giving more branching in closer and more fruit. Alar reduces intnodes and stem length on flowers giving a more compact tree looking fuller in flower.
Anyone heard of it before. Might try it on some tridents. They come with some pretty heavy warnings though so they serious products. Josh.

I think Payback in a bottle, is manufactured by Chuck Norris.

bonsaibuddyman wrote:I think Payback in a bottle, is manufactured by Chuck Norris.

:lol

how do they figure this stuff out. I wonder if it slows the growth or do you simply get more ramification at the same pace?

Never heard of it.
Surely some one else has and tried it tho

give it a whirl and post your results..
I have a pin oak that has long internodes so might benefit

Ken

Mount Nasura wrote:

bonsaibuddyman wrote:I think Payback in a bottle, is manufactured by Chuck Norris.

:lol

how do they figure this stuff out. I wonder if it slows the growth or do you simply get more ramification at the same pace?

It apparently disturbs to auxin in the leaves to prevent the branch reaching for sunlight so you don't get that elongated bud. Thus shorter internodes and a more compact bush.

kcpoole wrote:Never heard of it.
Surely some one else has and tried it tho

give it a whirl and post your results..
I have a pin oak that has long internodes so might benefit

Ken

Yeah I was hoping someone had used it before Ken. Something like your pin oak is where I think this would interesting to try it. I have tridents with longish internodes so will try on them to see what happens. Just have to stay home long enough to make do it properly.

Josh.

Josh wrote: It apparently disturbs to auxin in the leaves to prevent the branch reaching for sunlight so you don't get that elongated bud. Thus shorter internodes and a more compact bush.
.

Interesting stuff Josh, I wonder if prolonged use would effect genetic make up, or cause deformity? Did you buy either of them to do some testing? (... for us (you're welcome to be the guinea pig ), wonder if the boss's neighbour uses it on the cherries?

After Tuesday's presentation a few of us joked that some of the audience would now be out looking for Auxin in a bottle, well looks like you found anti-auxin in a bottle

On a more serious note though Josh, coming from a horticultural perspective, I wouldn't be using it on a tree that has recently been dug up, as this would put undue stress on material already stressed. I also wouldn't use it on anything that isn't in excellent health. And certainly don't trial it on any of your prized stock I would be too scared to use it myself, so I admire your spirit.

Hi all,

This one doesn't seem like the 'another day, another product' horticultural ruse although I would be careful with any chemical . Just sayin'

Cheers,

Brad75.

Don't use Alar! It has no place with bonsai.

Hi treeman,

I'll take your word for it! Back to the osmocote for this little black duck.

Cheers,

Brad75.

cre8ivbonsai wrote:

Josh wrote: It apparently disturbs to auxin in the leaves to prevent the branch reaching for sunlight so you don't get that elongated bud. Thus shorter internodes and a more compact bush.
.

Interesting stuff Josh, I wonder if prolonged use would effect genetic make up, or cause deformity? Did you buy either of them to do some testing? (... for us (you're welcome to be the guinea pig ), wonder if the boss's neighbour uses it on the cherries?

After Tuesday's presentation a few of us joked that some of the audience would now be out looking for Auxin in a bottle, well looks like you found anti-auxin in a bottle

Yeah Ryan I spoke to Tien about this after his talk. Thought it was very interesting.
Yes I bought a bottle to test. I might have a spare tree or two try it out on

bonsaibuddyman wrote:On a more serious note though Josh, coming from a horticultural perspective, I wouldn't be using it on a tree that has recently been dug up, as this would put undue stress on material already stressed. I also wouldn't use it on anything that isn't in excellent health. And certainly don't trial it on any of your prized stock I would be too scared to use it myself, so I admire your spirit.

Bonsaibuddyman, I never try ANYTHING new on trees I like and I would never try anything new on a sick or unhealthy tree

Brad75 wrote:Hi all,

This one doesn't seem like the 'another day, another product' horticultural ruse although I would be careful with any chemical . Just sayin'

Cheers,

Brad75.

Always careful with chemicals

treeman wrote:Don't use Alar! It has no place with bonsai.

Treeman, can you please explain your reasoning. You obviously have some experience with it. Instead of just making a comment please explain your reason so we can all learn

Brad75 wrote:Hi treeman,

I'll take your word for it! Back to the osmocote for this little black duck.

Cheers,

Brad75.

Can't go wrong with osmocote.

Josh

I feel uneasy about this and am not sure why? Maybe it is the fact that I feel developing bonsai is a reflection of the skill of the owner to create an image "within natures boundaries". The art of bonsai to me is a refreshing escape from the modern world of immediate results, short cuts and instant satisfaction. Using an artificial chemical to achieve a result feels a bit like cheating?

Just my opinion, I realise everyone is different.

Would this stuff be similar to Bonzi, or whatever it was called, that was around years ago? Never used it, but know a few that did. Did amazing things to Chinese elms as I remember. Someone, might have been Ray Nesci although not sure, used it on one and the tree looked as if it had green moss growing on the branches. The leaves and growth were reduced that much. Think I'd prefer my scissors and time personally. Just saying, is all.

I would be very reluctant to use growth regulators on bonsai trees. What would be the regime, how much, how often and for how long. Producers use regulators on Chysanthemums that are sold in retail stores round Mothers Day. If you keep these plants they revert to normal growth patterns because the application of the regulator has ceased. This would most likely happen to any bonsai if the application of a regulator I disrupted.

JaseH wrote: Using an artificial chemical to achieve a result feels a bit like cheating?

As a cycling fan from way back, I'm chuckling at the thought of WADA carrying out unannounced sap testing of bonsai and taking soil samples of every show winner...