AusBonsai

Hi,
Just wondering about the size of the leaves on my fig trees, a Morten Bay and a Port Jackson. The M.B has bigger leaves than the other, both are in training pots still and are healthy. I know the warmer months to come are the time to work on them, just wondering...Should I defoliate them in order to produce new smaller leaves???
Any ideas?

Cheers Ben

Its usually a summertime job defoliating figs.

I have heard of people doing two defoliations a year, one about now and another over Summer. I know the trees needs to be really healthy though. I don't know a great deal about it though, but I'm sure you'll get a few replies from some more experienced people soon [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

You can defoliate as much as you like, but the tree will suffer and deteriorate if you do. Typical to do on a year if healthy and you want to reduce the leaf size
Yuo would only do that if and when the tree is developed enough to warrant it?

Is the trunk the Size you want?
Are the branches the size and position for the final design?
Are they ramified enough?

if so then defoliate when the tree is actively growing to reduce the leaf size,

Ken

Not all figs are the same.

I have a couple of subspecies of figs; most can be defoliated during the active growing season without much impact. If they are healthy and actively growing, they will be fine. It also allows you to balance the trees growth. You can do partial defoliation of the areas which you want to stunt growth in. Most figs have strong apex growth, and to push growth down to the bottom branches, I defoliate the top, leaving the bottom to grow freely. Thickens the bottom branches and balances the tree.

I also partially defoliate to create ramification. Most figs do not ramify well and without defoliation, even more so. I do not necessarily do a full defoliation, I defoliate the older leaves, which are lower on the branches, which gives me new branches closer to the trunk. I do not remove all the old leaves as they will fall over time anyway. If i do not want a new branch there, I leave them. I do not do a full defoliation every year. I may be wrong, but my experience is that a couple of years of continuous defoliation does slow the growth significantly. So I do partial every year, or full every second year. I also do not do full defoliate for figs which I am still developing outside of the bonsai pot. I only do full defoliation in the pot. I.e. Trees I am developing into bonsai. Pre- bonsai very rarely partial, but I do as they approach conversion into bonsai, and some branch reduction and removal. Other than that, I just let them grow. As pre-bonsai.

I have a couple in the field and they are allowed to grow as they want. Occasionally I will cut back branches, reduce trunks, but nothing more complex than that.

I am not sure what the "books" say should or could be done. I do what works in our climate and through a couple of years of experience. So these are just some pointers of what worked for me. Our climate is very similar to Sydney.

We do most of our heavy work on our semi tropical figs around late November or early December. Other trimming and partial defoliation any time during summer.

Hi peeps.

Just wanting to keep some relevant advise in this older thread, some great work by Gerald in particular.
Can someone please comment regarding...

* Removal of the terminal bud when defoliating Figs to improve ramification - yes, no?
* Additional thoughts on the right time/s to defoliate ficus varieties?
* Any warnings - Benjamina?
* Any additional species specific thoughts on defoliation?
* Personal experiences with ficus defoliation, good and bad.

TIA.

Boics wrote:Hi peeps.

Just wanting to keep some relevant advise in this older thread, some great work by Gerald in particular.
Can someone please comment regarding...

* Removal of the terminal bud when defoliating Figs to improve ramification - yes, no?

Yes, a must. If you don't remove the terminal bud the branch/trunk will, most time, just keep growing longer and will seldom back bud.

Noics wrote:* Additional thoughts on the right time/s to defoliate ficus varieties?

More than one answer to this question, see below under "Personal Experiences", but depending on what I am doing to the tree I defoliate now, again straight after Christmas and again end of March.

Boics wrote:* Any warnings - Benjamina?

Never used them.

Boics wrote:* Any additional species specific thoughts on defoliation?

Yep

Boics wrote:* Personal experiences with ficus defoliation, good and bad.
TIA.

I can think of only one other fig subject that has led me into more arguments concerning Bonsai than the subject of "Defoliation". I don't think there are any two Bonsai Tragics who would agree on defoliating completely. I know a guy who defoliates ALL his figs, irrespective of what stage of training they are at, six (6) times a year every year. I know other people who will swear that is detrimental to the tree's health, but do you know what? It works FOR HIM!!! I have defoliated a few tree's that many times in the past, with no obvious short term harm to the tree - but I lived in Darwin at the time and did nothing but look after my trees all day long.

I reckon if you are looking for a definitive answer to defoliation, you will never get one. Ask 10 Bonsai nuts about wiring and you will get, roughly, one answer. Ask about repotting and again you will get the same rough answer. Ask about defoliating and I reckon you'll get about 25 different answers. So good luck mate

Enjoy reading your advice /expereance. What is the terminal bud??

Boics wrote:Just wanting to keep some relevant advise in this older thread, some great work by Gerald in particular.
Can someone please comment regarding...

* Removal of the terminal bud when defoliating Figs to improve ramification - yes, no?

Yes

Boics wrote: * Additional thoughts on the right time/s to defoliate ficus varieties?
* Personal experiences with ficus defoliation, good and bad.

Years ago, Dot Koreshoff told me the best time to defoliate figs was on Christmas Eve.
I have been doing this (when needed) for years, and it has served me well.

At the start of Ausbonsai, this very discussion caused a lot of ANGST.
I am one of those that defoliate 3 times a year starting at the beginning of November.
Although I have just defoliated a green Island today.
Graeme has stated a lot of reasons for defoliation, ramification is my aim now as all mine have reached where I want them.
The terminal bud is the end of the branch/twig.

Cheers Pup

I tend to agree, I have heard of many different approaches to defoliation. I was confused until I actually just started building experience. I believe it starts with what you want to achieve. My view is that defoliation slows down growth, both root and foliage. Simple horticultural genetics. No production of "energy" causes less root growth, less root growth causes smaller leaves. How many times a year you have to do that is what many have differing opinions on. I have defoliated more than once a year and have not seen a massive difference in the ramification, although there was a difference, but I did notice that the trees started growing slower and the branches seemed to stay thinner. Let's be open about this, it all comes down to perception, because I can't prove that this is the case. I did not do any imperial studies to prove this view.

I have heard of twice, I have heard of three times, but it is the first time I have heard of 6 times per year. If it works and you have the time, definitely go for it. My view is that a tree must be given enough time to build up energy for the new growing season, mainly spring. If not given that opportunity by defoliating too often during the growing season in theory should weaken the tree over many years. The defoliation will not kill it, but one very hot spell, or cold spell or lack of hydration, and the tree could be at risk. There is also the fact that most of the hormonal development of many species takes place in the mature leaves. I.e. previous year's growth. Continuous removal of all the leaves does/can influence hormone production which is what is the cause of a "weaker" tree.

I guess, in my opinion, considering the above, if you are going to defoliate, defoliate as many times in a season as you can, but then leave it for the next season. Rebuild energy and hormone levels.

Growing bonsai is not a science, but science does influence the decisions we make. The rest is just experience and common sense. Which, working on my trees I often think I have too little of both.

The only thing I would add is that temperature seems (for me) to have a lot to do with success. The warmer the better and the tree must be growing exeedingly strongly, which is also related to temp.
Defoliating during a cool spell produced very weak insipid shoots which never really seem to get going later on.
I think the branch (at least on PJ's) should be thicker than a match stick or results will be crappy.
Humidity probably plays a big part. Keep the tree shaded after defoliation or trunk/branches may burn. And I would also recommend sterilizing your tools. I gave quite a few of my figs an incurable virus a while back! I had to burn them.

Great information all - I know that people will have some varying opinions and results but there are some "themes" shining through.
I'm going to summarise this information into the Wiki with a link to this thread.

Would anyone like to add some experiences specifically related to Benji's?

TIA.

Boics wrote:

Would anyone like to add some experiences specifically related to Benji's?

My . Benjamina is purely tropical! They do well in Hawaii and Sri Lanka. They are ''boderline'' in the temperate regions unless grown with artificial heat. I think they are not worth the trouble outside the tropics, however if you must grow them, defoliate when there is a good 2 or 3 months of hot ( and preferably humid) weather ahead. Cool weather can cause die-back of the fine stems at any time!

Hi all,

In my experience you defoliate in mid to late summer after repotting. Must have a good growth medium with figs as they don't do anything when bogged. Light, airy well draining soil with crushed granite or coarse sand but no diatomite. Don't know why it works but it does. On my Port Jackson the largest leaves are 7.5 cm long but after cutting back the branches they reduce to 3cm long and on short stalks. The shorter branches are shooting now and the longer ones are producing no new growth so they will be chopped back. I heard someone say 'treat figs like a hedge'. I think that might be overstating the work that goes into keeping figs but they seem to be easy to grow so I'm going too keep doing what my experience tells me is correct.

Just my ,

Cheers,

Brad75.