AusBonsai

Hello all...

My name is Ray and I live in the Southeastern USA.. this forum is awesome, and I hope it ok that I join and post. I am a newbie to bonsai and am seeking as much information as possible, and this seems like the place to be. A little about me.. I love trees, always have. Had thought of trying bonsai years ago, but never did. Now I am taking the plunge, and TBH the thought of being able to check daily on a bunch of my own trees is very exciting. So far I have collected a Trident Maple, a Flowering Japanese Apricot (both prebonsai, roughly 2 years old, trunk chopped, and in 2 gallon containers). Then as the body of this post says a Shania Japanese Maple. I am also planning to grab a Halfmoon Japanese Maple in the next month as well. I plan to plant all of these into collanders and then in a raised bed after reading that great thread by Ray on this site.

I was at a local nursery this weekend and saw this Shania and just could not resist (was highly discounted). I really wanted to have a couple Japanese Maples to play with as bonsai, and I do know they really don't make great subjects because of the graft union, but to me they don't have to be perfect, and I'll never show my trees anyway, just want to enjoy them.

I do like the shape of this little guy, but it does need a pruning for structure, and to remove things not growing as they should (vertical, crossing branches). After removing a little soil I was pleased to see a little nebari action going on as well. so.. for my questions...

When and how hard can I prune this. I am not thinking truck chop, but a reduction of maybe 60-70% of branching and buds for a base structure. Can this be done all at one time on this tree? .. and when?.. or just 30% per year?

Lastly... yes the grafting spot has chunk of wood in it. After looking the union over it is very clean but for the knot with the piece of dowel. But looking at it close I think I gently carve that out, and thinking the trunk may close over well. At least enough to make me happy.

Any thoughts, and and guidance would be great.

Thanks,
Ray

p.s. also posting a pic of the Trident as a second image

Hi Ray and welcome. GA! isn't that the Magnolia grandiflora state?

Regarding your trees, it all really depends on how far you want to take them so there is no one answer on how you should treat them. To do it properly, my approach would be to basically cut cut back very hard to about an inch or so the branches you think you may be able to use and also the leader (on the trident) and remove the rest flush. Do the same with the roots keeping only those in good positions and not overly heavy. On tridents you can remove very heavy roots quite readily (usually) without having any die back creeping up the trunk. With Acer palmatum types (especially the dwarf kinds) you need to be more careful and remove thick roots in 2 stages.
So then you are basically left with a stump and perhaps a few short well placed branches. The important thing from this point is to use the next growing season or two to strat the scar healing process by letting the branches grow without trimming for the entire year. It is however important to position the first inch of well placed new growth with some light wiring. (whether it is horizontal or at 45 degrees (better) is up to you). Then let the rest grow as it wants and encourage it by feeding and watering well. (remember to remove the wire!!!!!) Growing in the ground speeds up the process.
After a year or 2 of carefull observation and any necessary triming to remove all but one leader during the growing season, you can cut back everything very short again leaving only a lttle extra growth (which was previously wired) and dig up the tree. Trim the roots back short keeping more fiberous ones and fewer heavy ones. You should have some good material to place in a training pot and begin the everlasting process of branch development. If you are not satisfied with the results just keep repeating the above until you are.
This is basically the way all good quality deciduous stock is produced and without this proper foundation work will eventually be dissatifying. Of course you can do the same thing entirely in a pot and with dwarf Japanese maples I would recommend it.
To develop really nice interesting branching (and remember the winter viewing is the most satisfying) don't make the mistake of wiring long branches through impatience. Use wire to position formed branches but form the branches by clip and grow and defoliation etc. You should really only add one half to one and a half inches (20 to 40mm) of branch extention per year (depending on the species)

Hi from me too Ray,
All that treeman has said is good. i would add some other observations:
1. Get your trident out of that garden soil and potted into good potting mix. Soil is great for growing trees in the garden but your tree will not thrive in a pot with garden soil.

When and how hard can I prune this. I am not thinking truck chop, but a reduction of maybe 60-70% of branching and buds for a base structure. Can this be done all at one time on this tree? .. and when?.. or just 30% per year?

Not sure of your climate there but your Japanese maple should grow back better after a 60-70% prune. I prune them any time of year except just before bud burst when i find they bleed profusely. Better to wait until the leaves have opened and hardened than to cut around bud burst. Pruning 70% at one time should not hurt your tree.
I think the 'dowel' you mention is probably the remains of the rootstock above the graft. You can just cut it off as close as possible and the trunk should heal over in time.

The trident is certainly a bit ugly at the moment but should improve with some attention. I would cut the remains of the stump off just above the current leader. I'd also cut the leader below the strong horizontal branch then wait for new buds to shoot and see where to go from there.
It should be a good time to bare root this tree and see what sort of root system you have. if there are decent roots below that big one then just cut it off and shorten everything else back to just leave the radial roots and even shorten them substantially.
If you don't find a decent roots system I'd leave all roots intact and ground layer the trunk just above the large root to get a whole new radial root system started. You can do all that in 1 go and, for you in Georgia, now should be about the right time.

You all are awesome! I thank you not only for the replies, but for the lengthy, info filled replies!

Treeman...

Yes, magnolias all over down here, but also the Live Oak state.. love me some live oaks, even planted one at my old house, very slow growing but incredible trees. Got it on the Trident, I was thinking the crooked cool looking branch a little below the cut could give a cool shape to the tree if used as the main leader, but is below the cut... is that ok? or should I forget that idea? Was not sure what to do with branches I decided to keep, good to know cut them back to an inch or so. I was worried about letting branches grow all year and causing them to thicken too much and resulting in bigger scars than needed.. so do let them grow to heal the bigger trunk chop scar, and thicken trunk (after cutting them back before growing season)? Thank you for letting me know to wire the beginning of new growth, I was very confused on when to wire. What do you think on that big ugly root that is coming off in the pic? It literally hangs in the air, about 1/4" above all the others and the flare. I am thinking cut it off, drill a shallow, tiny hole, and put rooting compound in the hole, and bring soil level up til is grows a new root so the nebari is not weak in that area over time. Great information.


Shibui...

Yes, I was amazed.. the guy I got it from is well into bonsai, and had quite a lot of prebonsai stock, but he said he grew it for a year in that container, and I should leave it for one more year. After asking him about the soil he said it was fine, it came from his farm where the soil is much more loamy than our normal heavy clay, feeling it it honestly is a much better dirt, and feels loamy. Regardless my plan is to collander it and all my trees in the ground, with bonsai soil in the collander and good amended top soil in the raised bed. Pretty much exactly as Ray had done in his long thread on collander in ground growing. Good to know about when to prune the Japanese maple... first thought was now as it's dormant, but then after some reading was thinking let it leaf out and get some energy then cut in very early summer/late spring so that energy can go right into regrowth and back budding.

On the Trident.. Yes I see what you mean. So you would cut off the area about the crooked new leader including that side branch? Didn't know I could chop more off the trunk so soon, think it got chopped last fall. Was almost thinking it would look cool with that side branch in place. Hmmm... have to think on this with your idea now.. no doubt would turn out better.


Hope you all don't mind me putting up pics this weekend of the flowering apricot, would love some guidance and direction on that one as well.

Thanks again,
Ray

Welcome!

Some great advise from Treeman and Shibui - well done guys!

Re. the Trident I too am thinking cut back the top growth to what looks like the leader on the left.
How you cut and mould this area will be important. I see a nice carved hollowed out region which blends into the leader.

On first thoughts I was thinking just ground layer the trident but I suppose as Shibui said check the current root system first as this might be great under that ugly root an you could save some time.

Here is where I would cut. Also lean the trunk a little more to the right. That should give a nice flow up the trunk and into the new leader. That existing leader is very awkward - all heading in the same general direction with no taper. Cutting where indicated might seem drastic but will give taper and the opportunity to bring the trunkline back over the base.

the guy I got it from is well into bonsai, and had quite a lot of prebonsai stock, but he said he grew it for a year in that container, and I should leave it for one more year. After asking him about the soil he said it was fine, it came from his farm where the soil is much more loamy than our normal heavy clay, feeling it it honestly is a much better dirt, and feels loamy.

I have been producing prebonsai tridents for many years. This one looks a lot like some of my early attempts - hope you got it cheap. I now have the knowledge and techniques to produce much better trunks and stock like this one would go into the chipper here.
It is possible to grow plants in pots in garden soil (loam) but we have found they do grow so much better when potted into a good potting mix.