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JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 15th, 2015, 11:04 am
by dansai
I bought this JBP from Bonsai World on the Central Coast. I chose this one because of the abundant lower branches with the aim of producing a Shohin.
This is how I bought it after taking the top of and cutting back one long branch.
As Bought.jpg
I then cleaned it up a bit removing branches where multiples came from the one spot and trimmed back the remaining branches. I was amazed at how many branches where in there. This was whats left.
First Trim.jpg
It was hard to see what was going on before I did this and after I did and looked at the trunk I saw 2 options. Leave as it is and develop a larger tree using some low branches as sacrifice branches or continue with the original plan of starting a shohin.
The larger tree at first glance looks to be the better option as there is no taper in the lower trunk to create the shohin. However the I find the zig zag shape of the larger tree a bit boring for my tastes unless I grow it much thicker with multiple sacrifice branches.
Any thoughts
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 15th, 2015, 11:50 am
by kez
Hi Dansai,
Looks to me like it needs a bit more growth from the abundant buds low down on the trunk but once you get the growth there should be plenty of branches to work with.
I like the idea of a shohin and agree with you about the zigzagging shape, not quite enough variations to pull it off as a larger tree I think
Good luck and keep us posted
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 15th, 2015, 12:02 pm
by dansai
Thanks Kez. Definitely needs a lot more growth. Most branches are short and thin so there won't be wire anytime soon. Was more looking to set it up for the future rather than create an "instant" Bonsai.
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 15th, 2015, 12:55 pm
by MoGanic
Hey Dansai,
I would be using the current leader as the sacrifice and letting it go wild, while maintaining the shape of the lower buds and increasing ramification. This would give you a very convincing shohin.
If you did want to grow it out to a larger tree, I'd still be using the leader as a sacrifice and wiring up a new leader off one of the lower shoots. This allows you to determine the trunk line through wiring of the lower branch (new leader) and will also give great taper.
Cheers,
Mo
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 15th, 2015, 3:02 pm
by dansai
Nice idea Mo. However the lower shoots are quite weak so I'ld be worried about the letting the top go too wild as I might lose them.
Besides which it's too late. I chopped the top off and will now leave the lower shoots to grow strongly and gain vigour. It's a pity I didn't have a bigger budget when I visited the nursery. I would have got quite a few and tried a few different things. Oh well! Maybe next time I'm down there.
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 15th, 2015, 3:07 pm
by Jarad
Did you needle pluck to balance the energy distribution?
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 15th, 2015, 3:29 pm
by dansai
I would normally. But every branch left is pretty weak at the moment so I'll let it grow and develop branches before trying to balance it
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 15th, 2015, 4:14 pm
by kez
I wouldn't worry about needle plucking at this point. This is used to keep the tree in balance when it is at a further stage refinement wise, to stop strong areas getting overlong, to keep new growth in check and equal in length, and to promote better ramification by making sure the weaker areas get their share of energy.
At the moment you need all the energy you can get to ensure as much growth as possible, the more needles the tree has the more energy it will produce
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 15th, 2015, 4:33 pm
by Jarad
Cheers Kerrin. Makes sense.
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 15th, 2015, 10:21 pm
by thoglette
dansai wrote:Nice idea Mo. However the lower shoots are quite weak so I'ld be worried about the letting the top go too wild as I might lose them. .
Jonas Dupuich doesn't think this will be a problem.
The single best page I've found is
BSSF Care of Japanese Black Pine from 2013 which includes the following diagram (which doesn't quite fit as a link so I've included it as an attachment - it's (c) them)
PineProgression-1024x791.jpg
(Oh - good page
https://nelibonsai.wordpress.com/2013/1 ... ack-pines/ )
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 16th, 2015, 7:47 am
by dansai
kez wrote:At the moment you need all the energy you can get to ensure as much growth as possible, the more needles the tree has the more energy it will produce
Thanks Kez. Your input on JBP and Junipers has taught/confirmed a lot. This is what my intuition told me but I haven't had the tuition (no classes locally and don't get a chance to go to my local club) to confirm these things. I also find there is a lot of info out there on how to refine JBP, balance energy and reduce needle size but very little on how to develop them from young stock.
Thanks thoglette for the links to stuff on early development of JBP. It was stuff I've been searching for and haven't had much luck.
As it is I have cut it back and will let it grow for a whole season before doing much more.
Re: JBP Shohin or grow it bigger?
Posted: April 17th, 2015, 12:29 am
by AirControl
dansai wrote:kez wrote:At the moment you need all the energy you can get to ensure as much growth as possible, the more needles the tree has the more energy it will produce
Thanks Kez. Your input on JBP and Junipers has taught/confirmed a lot. This is what my intuition told me but I haven't had the tuition (no classes locally and don't get a chance to go to my local club) to confirm these things. I also find there is a lot of info out there on how to refine JBP, balance energy and reduce needle size but very little on how to develop them from young stock.
Thanks thoglette for the links to stuff on early development of JBP. It was stuff I've been searching for and haven't had much luck.
As it is I have cut it back and will let it grow for a whole season before doing much more.