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Premna Japonica - Best time to Wire & Prune

Posted: May 21st, 2015, 10:22 pm
by Bonsaiforest
Hi...

Have just recently picked up a few Premna Japonica's and being new to this species was wondering if all of you Bonsai enthusiasts could help with the following.

When is the best time of year to wire trunk and main branches?

When is the best time of year to discard unwanted larger branches and how to promote back budding for new growth.

Would it be ok to do now in Autumn or should I be waiting until spring when new growth appears...?

Is it possible to graft buds to main trunk to introduce new branch structure?

Have heard that they are a similar species to Maples but not sure how Premna's react and respond to the above.

Any advice, guidance or suggested online material and extra reading would be greatly appreciated

Thank you

Bonsaiforest

Re: Premna Japonica - Best time to Wire & Prune

Posted: May 22nd, 2015, 9:13 am
by MoGanic
Hi Bonsaiforest,

Here's a link with quite an impressive shohin right at the end.

http://bonsaijournal.com/premna.php

Well, to start with its deciduous, so best time to carry out heavy work is just prior to bud burst in spring. I'd say chopping is better for trunk movement if its got any age on it, but if its young enough then you should be able to put some interesting movement in with wire.

They respond really well to clip and grow, but get the main structure in the branches and secondary branches first. Clip and grow will reduce leaf size on this to a large extent.

They back bud prolifically when treated right so you don't need to worry about that, again clip and grow will cause the back buds you need to fill out the canopy in no time.

Given they are so vigorous, you can safely trunk chop an established tree and expect lots of new buds. Chopping right after a root prune will reduce success.

Ps chuck up a few pics when you can ;-).

Regards,
Mo


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Re: Premna Japonica - Best time to Wire & Prune

Posted: May 22nd, 2015, 9:41 am
by Ryceman3
MoGanic wrote:Hi Bonsaiforest,

Here's a link with quite an impressive shohin right at the end.

http://bonsaijournal.com/premna.php
You're not wrong, that is a great Shohin, most impressive is the leaf reduction on it, just amazing! Good link, thanks for sharing...

Re: Premna Japonica - Best time to Wire & Prune

Posted: May 22nd, 2015, 9:48 am
by Steven
G'day BonsaiForest,

I note you are in Sydney. Ray Nesci has some cracking shohin P. japonica that he has been training for 20 to 30 years. They are in his private collection and aren't for sale.
Would be really worth your while to go along and have a chat to him about them.

Regards,
Steven

Re: Premna Japonica - Best time to Wire & Prune

Posted: May 22nd, 2015, 4:17 pm
by Bonsaiforest
Thanks MoGanic...

Your reply was very informative and very well received... I'll take action just before spring. When I chop back the heavy branches yet still want to achieve back budding on the trunk... Should I cut back as close as possible or leave an inch or so to die back. Do you think it's possible / or likely for new buds to appear close to the main trunk even if I can't see any signs of them now...?

MoGanic would appreciate your reply... Or if their are any more of you that are just as knowledgable on the topic of Premna Japonica's your replies are most welcome...!!!

Thank you

Bonsaiforest

Re: Premna Japonica - Best time to Wire & Prune

Posted: May 22nd, 2015, 4:46 pm
by MoGanic
Bonsaiforest wrote:Thanks MoGanic...

Your reply was very informative and very well received... I'll take action just before spring. When I chop back the heavy branches yet still want to achieve back budding on the trunk... Should I cut back as close as possible or leave an inch or so to die back. Do you think it's possible / or likely for new buds to appear close to the main trunk even if I can't see any signs of them now...?

MoGanic would appreciate your reply... Or if their are any more of you that are just as knowledgable on the topic of Premna Japonica's your replies are most welcome...!!!

Thank you

Bonsaiforest
Hey,

Sorry, I'm a little confused by your question. Do you mean to chop branches back, and achieve back budding on the trunk? Or do you mean chop the trunk itself?

In my experience, it depends where you cut, how healthy the tree is and when you cut as to whether or not you'll experience die back. For example, on a vigorous and healthy tree, you can cut a branch off completely and expect new buds to form on the trunk (just because you cannot see the buds, doesn't mean the tree can't make em ;)). Here, because you cut back right to the trunk, you wouldn't expect any die back, deciduous trees are generally not the same as pines for example - where you would leave a stub to die back, which stops damage to the trunk/branches behind the chop.

Deciduous tree's generally die back when there is an easier option for them. Let's say you have a main branch coming off your trunk, that splits into two and those two split into four. You should be able to see buds along the length of the branchlets towards the ends. Generally, if you cut one of these, they will die back to the next available bud. This is completely normal and, in the case of Premna Japonica, will result in two additional branches forming (because you will have two buds at each node going in opposite directions).

Now, if you took your branch described above, and cut it back leaving only a stub on the trunk, you'd likely get buds on the branch and maybe even some buds on the trunk (if done just prior to spring). If you do this in autumn or early winter, there is a chance that the stub will begin to die back a little and in extreme cases, you can lose the whole stub. Just prior to bud burst, the tree is already moving resources and food around and can keep sections alive for longer while it produces new buds. In Autumn and Winter, the tree is doing the opposite and very little is happening.

Here's the kicker though, lets say you did what you did to the branch above, but you had another 20 branches on the trunk that are further up and have lots of ramification on them. Though on this particular species, there's still a good chance that your tree will produce buds on the stub (give it light and air to increase chances), there's also a reasonable chance that the tree will let that stub die off and redirect growth to all the other healthy branches it has.

So, lets say you have a bunch of branches you like and don't want to lob off. What you can do is thread/approach graft branches exactly where you want them. This could be the best option, depending on what your tree looks like right now. Just a note though, thread grafts are better for the front of the tree (less scarring when done well) and approach grafts are better for the back of a tree (tends to produce scars in the shape of a line... looks strange until it completely heals). There's several great tutorials on here and on YouTube for both of these methods.

Given there are so many variables, it's probably best if you post a picture of your tree and then we can all let you know the best path of action to get to where you want.

Regards,
Mo

Re: Premna Japonica - Best time to Wire & Prune

Posted: May 22nd, 2015, 8:31 pm
by Bonsaiforest
Thanks Mo... Your a champion... Exactly the information I needed to continue with my P.J project will also look into grafts as you suggested and if I can get my hands one of those I phones then I'll post some picks

Thanks again ... Greatly appreciated