AusBonsai

Hi all,
I have read through a few old posts and the Wiki about growing in the ground but still have questions. I am curious how tall trees in the ground are allowed to grow? I understand the taller they are the less taper they are likely to develop so how tall do people let them grow. Also how far back are they cut?
Appreciate your assistance as usual.

i guess it comes down to what youre trying to achieve from ground growing as well as the species that is being used. i think the popular and probably the most logical method is lifting the tree out every year, root pruning and cutting back hard (of course the extent depending on the species) to create taper.

what were you planning on sticking in the ground?

The height is determined by you, growing in the ground doesn't cause lack of taper, however if you leave any tree unchecked for a number of years of course it's
Going to grow and thicken and that can lead to lack of taper-that's why we maintain our trees, wire, etc.



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It all depends on what style and size tree you want eventually?

if you want a taller tree, leave each trunk chop a little longer between them. A smaller tree, cut them closer to get the taper in the same distance.
I trunk chop every second year and leave the tree in between to get to as tall as it likes. Elm and maple get about fence height, the Black pine I have in the ground gets about 6 inches.

Ken

RayM has done a bit (read "a lot") of research on growing trees in colanders to reap the benefit of 'Ground-growing' while containing the rootball.

This gives you the benefit of maintaining a tight rootball close to the base of your tree for root maintenance AND allow the tree to send out roots into the ground to benefit from being planted in the ground... Have a read and see if it suits your purpose.

Hi Stu,
I have been growing trees in the ground for more than 20 years and have learnt lots in that time.
You are correct that a single trunk that is allowed to grow will end up like a telephone pole with little taper and will require a large cut to reduce the height and then takes quite a few years for the scar to heal and the new leader to thicken to match the stump. You can still grow bonsai from trees like this but I found it is better to intervene and get a better result. I now allow the trees in the grow beds to grow freely for a few months, possibly all the first year (but before it gets too thick) then prune quite low - about where you'd expect the first branch or bend to end up. The tree usually responds by producing several new leaders. These grow fast but are each thinner than the main trunk. Not the best example but may give you an idea of what I mean..Allow these multiple leaders to grow freely all the following year then when you dig the tree you can prune off the excess leaders to leave 1 best placed trunkline. The pruning scars are each smaller so heal faster and you get better taper by this method.
My trees grow to over 2 m tall during a good year.

Another factor that contributes to taper is roots. If you prune the roots properly before putting it in the ground you will promote lateral surface roots and the base of the trunk flares our considerably - see previous image. Trees with vertical roots have less taper.
Note that the tree above has been too long in the ground and the roots have grown far too thick. I leave tridents in for a max 2 years now, often dig every year when growth has been good.

G'Day Neil,
Still am amazed how easily you get all this to happen ...

But it doesn't apply to all plants, have you come across any that should not be treated like this?

I find the topic strange. There are standard process and techniques per species which has been used and proved by Chinese, Japanese and other growers outside of these countries. It would make sense for Stu to tell us what he actually wants to know. What medium to grow it in, how to structure the roots, how often to lift, what the prepositions of the cuts are. Typically there are three segments to the tree. I'm not following the real question. I also think this has been debated in many treads Old Mutual this sight and others.

But it doesn't apply to all plants, have you come across any that should not be treated like this?

Yes, you are correct, not all species can be treated the same but I do this to most deciduous trees that I grow. Tridents are among the hardiest. I would leave roots a little longer on Chinese elms and Japanese maples and most other species as well, but not by much.
There has been plenty of threads showing that olives can be cut even harder than this and still survive. Our club has collected lots from roadsides and paddocks and had close to 100% survival.

You are already probably aware that pines will die if all the branches are cut off like that but I still grow them in the ground roughly the same - prune early to get lots of branches and leaders, allow them to grow freely for 1 or 2 years then remove surplus growth to leave the best trunkline and shoots that will become branches. I still prune the roots of conifers quite hard (not as short as the photos above though) but there is nearly always some smaller feeder roots that you can leave to keep the tree alive while it recovers. Conifers I have used include: JBP, JRP, Chinese juniper, gingko, mugho pine, swamp cypress and dawn redwood.
The banksias I have tried have also been treated similar to pines. I have lost a few but survival rate is improving each time I try. Callistemon can be treated similar.

I have tried a few other natives with very poor survival rates, even when leaving far more roots so much more work needed there.

Hi guys,
Many thanks to all who responded.
In response to some, I am trying to grow deciduous and natives (everything I can fit in) and am relatively new to ground growing.
Based on your comments Shibui I should chop lower down. I was hoping for this sort of info thanks.
Gerald, sorry if I confused you. It can be difficult to know what the question is. You don't know what you don't know.