AusBonsai

My first attempt
I collected this tree(been told its a sheoak)before the council was due to kill/remove it.
It was from a sucker off the main tree, it's horizontal root had some new white roots growing.
My main question is:
Wiill this make a good bonsai, or is it to tall?

It's been trimmed down and I'm feeding it seasol to kick start it
Of course been a newbie, any help would be great.
Regards chris

I'm also a newbie but from what I've learnt so far it's that when they are that thin it's best to put them into a large grow pot to allow it to thick up quicker. In shallow pots like the one your tree is in it will take quite a long time for it to develop any kind of trunk and branches.

So my suggestion (and again I'm also a real newbie so don't take what I say as gospel), but my my suggestion Is to put this into a bigger pot, feed it and grow it thicker and stronger. Allow it to really get some size onto it both trunk and strong root system, and this will also give you more to work with (more branches)

So in my opinion the height really doesn't matter at the moment. It will grow taller if you decided to put it into a grow pot anyway. You can reduce the height by a trunk cop anyway so that part can be worried about later

That's just my 2 cents anyway haha

Enjoy!!


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I'm more worried it'll put on more height and not have a canopy if i cut it down...
At the moment, it basically has almost zero roots as its just been cut off a sucker..

Hi Chris,

Casuarina species (common name She-Oaks) can make fantastic bonsai. Wether this tree will is really up to how you treat it. At the moment it is too tall and thin and will need to grow for a number of years to give you something to start making a bonsai. There is some great info on the AusBonsai Wiki (link is on the top right of the page) as well as elsewhere on the net as to what needs to be done to make a young tree/seedling into a bonsai. The biggest thing being time.

As for your tree, you really want some branches lower down so I would cut it off just below where you have wired then let it grow for a year or so before even thinking about what to do next. As suggested by bonsai_beginner, it could do with a larger pot but I would wait now until late spring as most Natives like to be repotted in warmer weather and you don't want to disturb it too much. If you want to practice some bonsai techniques like wiring, trimming, etc, the best thing to do is go get a few trees (preferably from a bonsai nursery) to work on. Also join a club if you haven't already.

A note on Casuarina and how they grow if you didn't know: what looks like needles as found on pines, are actually small branches. The leaves are tiny and occur at the junctions you will see on the young green branches and it is the green branches that do the majority of the photosynthesis.

As has been mentioned, too tall and thin, but time can possibly fix that after you learn to maintain it in good health.

Let it recover ( I assume recently collected) and once growing well then you can chop and shape to your hears content
In the meantime, check out the wiki pages here https://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie for some great info to start.

Ken

Great info and I'll take everything on board.
It sounds like I should find a more suitable patient to work with as this one is far too young...
My local bonsai shop want a fortune for plants and don't sell any stock to work with.
Might have to search the local plant shops....

ace2weather wrote:...
My local bonsai shop want a fortune for plants and don't sell any stock to work with.

Depends on what they sell. Good quality will attract a good price! But then some nurseries just call something a Bonsai and charge you like a wounded Bull. What is the nursery (there is a list of nurseries on the home page), chances are they're known to us as a collective.

ace2weather wrote: My local bonsai shop want a fortune for plants and don't sell any stock to work with.
Might have to search the local plant shops....

This too will work. You will learn how to kill/or not kill young plants. And you can practice pruning and wiring...
Good luck! It's in the "doing" that you learn!


Cheers
Elmar

ace2weather wrote:Great info and I'll take everything on board.
It sounds like I should find a more suitable patient to work with as this one is far too young...
My local bonsai shop want a fortune for plants and don't sell any stock to work with.
Might have to search the local plant shops....

I politely disagree with some of the comments given to you, (just my opinion, and def. not wanting to ruffle feathers). There is nothing wrong with the stock you have pictured. My only suggestions are :

Decide on what you want the stock to look like. Are you going for a tall lanky specimen like you often see in nature, or a thicker, stronger base with low branching. Casuarina has the advantage of having all these traits visible in nature.

I would however grow the specimen in a much larger growing pot and generously add thick pebbles throughout the entire medium to increase the drainage - about 1cm thick pebbles/rocks. I sometimes go with a 30% medium of pebbles and 70% soil. Gives a fantastic drainage, but be conscious of not letting it dry out.

Casuarina will thicken fast if : given full sun, fertilized monthly and NOT allowed to dry out, so don't worry about finding better stock. Just find more casuarina stock to practise and have fun with. They are very rewarding if you follow the Casy basics! . Don't overwater the stock for long periods, as it can rot the base.

If you intend on keeping the stock as it looks, remove one of the bar branches (branches that radiate from the same point), to remove bulging. Again though, bulging is actually very common on Cas in the wild, as too is bar branching, (each to their own).

If you intend on just 'thickening' the stock, then don't worry about styling or branching, just grow it hard and big, and then you can trunck-chop later below any bulge anyway. Casuarina is best to trunk chop in November / December, and not in any other time of year to reduce die back. Always a good idea to allow the tree to grow as much new growth as it can, as this increases the vigour and in turn, the girth of the base. You only need to prune Casys once or twice a year if you are in the growing phase. And for your stock, I would suggest not pruning or cutting back for 2 years or more. This is why I suggest getting more stock to work with so you don't overwork the tree. Casuarina don't really like to be constantly picked at or 'eaten', as they can overcome this by dying back and starting again from the base in an attempt to combat what is 'affecting' the trunk. But this also will depend more on the particular species.
Remember, a casuarina is like a conifer, as it really requires a lot of sun and relies on this with lots of branchlets for good health.

Just watch for all the sap sucking insects when you have little foliage such as yours. They can quickly decimate a young stock like this.

Unfortunately those who often try their hand at Casuarina often pluck the growth too often, too soon and don't allow the tree to grow, which weakens the tree and makes it more susceptible to disease and so forth and also die-back. Then thinking the material just isn't suitable for bonsai, they give up and move onto a different variety. A shame really that more people don't give them a better go.

Alright, I've taken everyones opinions and advice.
So I'll slug it out with my twig as I can't bare to kill any plant.....
But.......
I have acquired 2 more and I think one of them if very suitable....


And a very large trunk with branches down low....
The second tree will need some time in the ground( no photo needed)
Now should I trunk chop it now or let it grow a bit more??
I'm going for a formal upright style with either a natural look or cloud style growth.

Little update, I lost the 2 large ones in the heat, but the little is alive, been in a green house for ages and now has leaves/branches forming...

ace2weather wrote:now has leaves/branches forming...

I love it when they do that

Ken

Yeah, I was about to reclaim the pot and give it the farewell boot.
I scratched the bark and it was still green.....
Now I have a true Bonsai.....STICK.......

Hey Chris,

I'm pleased the others died. To be blunt they were rubbish for learning about bonsai. There is an ongoing debate in bonsai forums about sticks in pots, and I've sat on both sides of the fence, but as I get more experience I come to the realization that too many beginners waste far to much time learning bonsai on rubbish stock. Then when someone says the stock is rubbish a bunch of other people jump in and say yes but it's great to learn on etc etc. fact is, they are wrong. It's that simple. Why do I say this? Well, it's simple really, and not only simple but logical and therefore correct.........you can learn much more and much faster by learning on stock that is appropriate for bonsai. By this I don't mean going out and spending top twack on top material, but just invest in some stuff that has decent roots, a decent trunk line with some promise and a few branches in roughly the right place. Firstly it will capture your interest more because it will look like a bonsai. Secondly you will learn more because you can do more with it sooner, and thirdly I'm just right and they are just wrong. Or of course you can get rubbish stock, put some wire on it, make a cut and stick it in the ground to thicken for three years while you learn to play the banjo. In three years you will have learnt virtually nothing about bonsai. The upside is you'll pull the chicks with your banjo.

If you want to learn bonsai, buy decent material from a bonsai nursery and take the time and effort to work it. There will be much more to do. It will be much more interesting. You will make and fix far more mistakes. You will learn FAR faster. Only problem is your banjo will suck.

By all means keep the inappropriate material like the cassies, but acknowledge that they are not learning material and be willing to stick them in the ground for the looooooooooong haul. I'm a firm believer that WAY too much time is wasted by bonsai practitioners in trying to convert the provrbial pigs ear into a silk purse. Do it by all means, but when you wake up to what I've said above in ten years time and you have a yard full of marginal bonsai trees, remember this thread. You are about the same age as me mate. We don't have time to mess about with junk.

So, don't take any of this the wrong way. It is intended with your best interests at heart and as harsh as it may sound it is simply fact. If anyone tries to argue with it, just accept that they are delusional

If you want to learn bonsai, here is your path to follow:

1.) Get to a bonsai nursery and buy a few good starter trees which are beginner proof. Things like olive, fig, Chinese maple, elms etc. Spend a bit of time reading relevant species guides ( loads available online)
2.) join a club or post them up here in this club
3.) get advice and work them.
4.) feed them like crazy
5.) let them grow out a bit, and the rinse and repeat from #3.
6.) finally, read and apply, don't read and ignore.

What sticks in pots are good for is learning advanced techniques like grafting etc. Here they serve a purpose because they are disposable. If they tickle your fancy keep them as well, but just acknowledge that you will not learn much from them.

Hope this helps a bit.

Cheers,

Andrew

Double post - deleted

That me laugh Andrew.

I can see where you are coming from, I'm sure the op doesn't take it the wrong way. We respect your honest brutality.

I do agree with pretty much most of what you say. If the species can get away with a lanky look, then all the merrier. But on the whole, we all understand where you are coming from Andrew.

I wish I had been told this when I started so many moons ago, as I wouldn't have bothered buying so many mountains of seedlings, and instead had amalgamated the purchases to large raw stock that had already been grown as bonsai.