AusBonsai

How much shade is too much?

Just wondering how much full sun everyone places their trees in during summer. I have elms, juniper, pines maples and figs. I have just moved them to a shadier part of the garden but they are only getting sun until 11 then shade for the rest of the day. Is that too shady for some species? I moved them as it is pretty hot and dry over summer in Canberra. Should I be moving them into a less shady position?

Thanks, Coolsy

Full sun, all day, everyday. But watering twice a day maybe even 3 times [in the height of summer].

Pines, junipers and Figs should have as much sun as you can give them. Not sure on the elms, but I assume the same. Maples, if by this you mean Japanese Maples, I would give some shade during the middle of the day and avoid any hot afternoon sun. Some shade shouldn't be heavy shade. Dappled light, or in my case I have trees that block the direct sun but they have good light, is good.

Many trees will go dormant over summer if in full sun but they continue to grow under 50% shade.

I'm going to try a few homemade pot shades this summer-possibly 70% shade cloth(so I can still water) cut to fit around the trunk and shade all the pot but not the plant---then full sun until 1pm then full shade

Hah . Ironic I just jumped on here to ask the same question . I recently aquired over 60 bonsai from an eldery man who could no longer look after them . They have been neglected for the last 2 years. ( my bonsai teacher delicately out it as living on rice for 2 years with no vegetables haha )
My uncle is a horticulturist and thinks the posistion I have put them is in too much sun . Coming into summer (toowoomba qld )
I am concerned he may be right , it is a perfect viewing location from my deck but will have them in full sun from sunrise till 4pm before shade arrives .
Should I relocate them clearly the Bonsai life far outweighs veiwing aspects .
Some more opinions on here would be very appreciated or suggestions like are shade cloth covers over the tree a good idea , if so how much clearance above the trees should the shade cloth be .
Thanks

I'm with Andrew. As much sun as possible to grow tidy, compact bonsai but you do need to be spot on with watering and/or provide additional moisture with gravel trays, etc.
But, as with all living things you will need to find the right balance for your abilities and specific microclimate. Also different species prefer different light levels and smaller pots need more protection than larger pots. There is no 1 simple, correct answer to this.
Until you are really proficient at watering and looking after bonsai I'd advise trying some afternoon shade. 11am is probably not enough sun for most species but most living things will tolerate a wide range of conditions.

Also . Since we are on the topic of summer, heat and watering .
What is your opinions on using a wetting agent in the soil to assist in keeping the moisture in a bit during the heat ?

I think wetting agents just help water penetrate the soil. I don't think they actually hold water in the mix.
There is other things that can hold more water in the soil. Water crystals were very popular for a while. looks like sand when dry but soaks up lots of water and becomes jelly when water touches it. I just wonder whether the roots can actually acces this stored water though. Also can be difficult to use. I mixed some into a potting mix and potted a tree into the pot. When i watered it the crystals swelled so much the soil overflowed out of the pot - maybe too much water crystals
I believe that Diatomite, perlite, akadama, pumice, turface are all mineral products that absorb moisture and hold it locked in the potting mix for longer period than without. Some of those may help conserve moisture in bonsai pots.

Andrew F wrote:But watering twice a day maybe even 3 times [in the height of summer].

I should also clarify, I use a mix of diatomite/scoria/zeolite/pumice and rarely any organic matter. Potting media is just another variable in the whole position/watering routine of keeping bonsai. Its been touched on a fair bit on the forum.

We've had days of up to 45.c [Mid Nor NSW] here and I'm yet to lose a tree to heat stress/drying out.

I dont think water retention/wetting agents are a good idea to be honest, Ive seen some of the 'bunnsai' with this black sludge/jelly like scum on/in the media due to this I'm sure. If you are worried maybe get a bag of spag moss and chop it up and apply it to the surface of your bonsai. I believe Bjorn has touched on this in one of his Art of Bonsai videos.

Thanks guys. Trees are moving this morning... Hopefully the enjoy this location

Coolsy

dibly_w wrote:Hah . Ironic I just jumped on here to ask the same question . I recently aquired over 60 bonsai from an eldery man who could no longer look after them . They have been neglected for the last 2 years. ( my bonsai teacher delicately out it as living on rice for 2 years with no vegetables haha )
My uncle is a horticulturist and thinks the posistion I have put them is in too much sun . Coming into summer (toowoomba qld )
I am concerned he may be right , it is a perfect viewing location from my deck but will have them in full sun from sunrise till 4pm before shade arrives .
Should I relocate them clearly the Bonsai life far outweighs veiwing aspects .
Some more opinions on here would be very appreciated or suggestions like are shade cloth covers over the tree a good idea , if so how much clearance above the trees should the shade cloth be .
Thanks

I have shade cloth over my trees and enough clwarance so they dont touch the cloth and also enough so the wind doesnt make it sag otherwise the cloth get hot and burns the leaves as I have found out

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Andrew F wrote:Full sun, all day, everyday. But watering twice a day maybe even 3 times [in the height of summer].

completely agree.

Most trees will appreciate full sun. In nature, you don't see giant shade cloths over these trees, or being completely moved to a shadier position in summer. Though, the only difference is that you are keeping the roots in a small pot unlike in nature, the roots go far down often to bore water or wetter areas, so just make sure you don't let the soil get close to very dry. Water when the soil is almost dry and keep them in full sun. If you know it is going to be a day of 30+ heat with no cloud and full sun, and the soil is almost dry or will be almost dry by the end of the day (you will only know this after a few years experience), then water it that morning if you are going to be at work. Also, wind is a factor, so if the soil is going to be almost dry throughout the day, and it is a windy day, water it that morning too, as wind will dry out your soil very fast, regardless of sun.

Really, the only real teacher and correct answer you will get is experience over time. No matter what you read on here, or what you are shown from a club, you will make your own mistakes at first, and you will lose fantastic stock along the way. This is how you will learn and begin to correctly water. It is easy to kill a maple from over watering, (everyone has done it), but it is much harder to learn how to water them properly so the roots are able to feed with adequate drainage. Actually I shouldn't say it is much harder, it is just something you will learn with time.

Often when you are starting out, the ones you have neglected and not over-watered are the ones that thrive - and when you begin to look back in hindsight as to how long you left it before pruning, or just watered it when it was reasonably dry - and these are the factors that will teach you the correct skills.

One last tip which is often overlooked, is to get the horticulture right, before you attempt the art. You need to be able to grow the material successfully and show that you are watering correctly when the soil is not damp, and that you are giving the tree sufficient sun, and sufficient fertilizer approx once every 2 - 4 weeks. (you can use slow release fertilizer too, which are just small pellets placed on the soil). Provided the roots are not pot bound, then forget about pruning, repotting etc, etc, as this needs to be learnt from your own research about the best times , or if you can do both at the same time for certain stock (repotting and root pruning), or whether the tree is sick before you attempt this etc etc.

Andrew F wrote:

Andrew F wrote:But watering twice a day maybe even 3 times [in the height of summer].

I should also clarify, I use a mix of diatomite/scoria/zeolite/pumice and rarely any organic matter. Potting media is just another variable in the whole position/watering routine of keeping bonsai. Its been touched on a fair bit on the forum.

We've had days of up to 45.c [Mid Nor NSW] here and I'm yet to lose a tree to heat stress/drying out.

I dont think water retention/wetting agents are a good idea to be honest, Ive seen some of the 'bunnsai' with this black sludge/jelly like scum on/in the media due to this I'm sure. If you are worried maybe get a bag of spag moss and chop it up and apply it to the surface of your bonsai. I believe Bjorn has touched on this in one of his Art of Bonsai videos.

I am the same but only water once a day unless my trees are showing stress. Typically these a days over 40.

To judge stress, I have a few trees the have soft new foliage and they will always droop when they start to dry out, when they do that, I water.
they are Pyracantha, Callistemon, lantana.

the only trees in semi shade are Japanes maples and all my Mini / Mame trees.

Ken