AusBonsai

hey guys, as some of you may know i have purchased the 2 tridents of jow, i have been thinking about them all day.. the larger scars are something i am going to have to deal with, i am thinking i should deal with them now rather than later.. from what i have been reading it is better of doing it that way.

what i would like is some information, maybe some pics from people that have been through this procedure before, how successful they were with it etc.

the first one will probly need a large hollowed trunk rather than a uro.

the second has a few spots that will be perfect to accentuate the tree. i will post the pics of the tridents but would like some info before i start the process?

thanks in advance.

regards jamie

hey jamie,
i think that the first one would look good with hollow trunk and the second one could just use some smaller ones down the trunk. A uro is meant to look like a branch has fallen off rather than been cut because on junipers and pines in nature the branch would die and become bleached by the sun but on deciduous species the branch will fall of and leave a hole in the trunk. i have done a few of these on some privets and will try to get some pics.

MasonC wrote:hey jamie,
i think that the first one would look good with hollow trunk and the second one could just use some smaller ones down the trunk. A uro is meant to look like a branch has fallen off rather than been cut because on junipers and pines in nature the branch would die and become bleached by the sun but on deciduous species the branch will fall of and leave a hole in the trunk. i have done a few of these on some privets and will try to get some pics.

thanks mate and yea i got the idea on uro, just after some advice

and to see some pics would be good.

and yes the first one i am thinking on hollowing the trunk out. its a bit of an ugly duckling right now but we all know how that story turned out dont we

will get some 2morrow

Tridents have softwood which rots easily. Get finer Dremel bits and score lines down the deadwood to mimic the pull-apart grain of dry wood. Don't go too deep or do too much detail. The detail you can achieve with olives and elms is definitely off the cards in softer wood. Keep in mind that maples grow in moist conditions and deadwood would rot far more quickly and you would never see a maple in the ground with a lot of deadwood. I would suggest carving out the areas so the carving is below the live wood surrounding the wound. As the live wood rolls over it gives a great effect of age and trials. But your deadwood must be below the roll area so you are not getting a raised callous - you are after a level one.

Once you carve you should leave the tree for a couple of months so any wounds are healed and then treat it with some product like 'Earls Wood Hardener' and then lime sulphur.

If you search for a couple of posts I did at the beginning of the year there is detailed info on carving plus the Dremel bits I find great. If you have any problems or can't find the article let me know.

I am just about carved out after doing an olive stump, an ash and a grey myrtle. But what fun. I will be posting the ash and the grey myrtle in the market place so you can look at those pics and get an idea. Keep in mind the grey myrtle is commonly called 'Ironwood' and the ash is fairly hard. With maples I would texture the deadwood to make it look natural but I would keep the work simple and shallow.

Last point... however you carve you must ensure that you have not created any pools where water can collect to aid rotting. Always create runoff paths, even in hardwoods.

i think that lime sulphur is a little to 'showy' on deciduous species so i just carve on and harden the wood on things like tridents

Shouldnt need to use lime sulfur, but still darken the wood a great deal.

Like Mela stated, soft wood rots easy, so when doing dead work keep it in mind. Try to carve the wood as you would see a rotting section of timber to look like.

There are very very few deciduous tree's that wont rot out, prunus mume being one of those few. There is a good article on a bonsai UK edition that I will hunt out. The artist used a hawthorn as its its not suited to the normal jin and shari work seen on junipers and pines (Junipers over 100 years being able to take extensive jin shari work, and pines suited more to shari than jins given most have softer wood. Kimura has made comments on this a number of times).

MelaQuin wrote:Tridents have softwood which rots easily. Get finer Dremel bits and score lines down the deadwood to mimic the pull-apart grain of dry wood. Don't go too deep or do too much detail. The detail you can achieve with olives and elms is definitely off the cards in softer wood. Keep in mind that maples grow in moist conditions and deadwood would rot far more quickly and you would never see a maple in the ground with a lot of deadwood. I would suggest carving out the areas so the carving is below the live wood surrounding the wound. As the live wood rolls over it gives a great effect of age and trials. But your deadwood must be below the roll area so you are not getting a raised callous - you are after a level one.

Once you carve you should leave the tree for a couple of months so any wounds are healed and then treat it with some product like 'Earls Wood Hardener' and then lime sulphur.

If you search for a couple of posts I did at the beginning of the year there is detailed info on carving plus the Dremel bits I find great. If you have any problems or can't find the article let me know.

I am just about carved out after doing an olive stump, an ash and a grey myrtle. But what fun. I will be posting the ash and the grey myrtle in the market place so you can look at those pics and get an idea. Keep in mind the grey myrtle is commonly called 'Ironwood' and the ash is fairly hard. With maples I would texture the deadwood to make it look natural but I would keep the work simple and shallow.

Last point... however you carve you must ensure that you have not created any pools where water can collect to aid rotting. Always create runoff paths, even in hardwoods.

thanks mel! i always appreciate your input, you always go into detail which really helps! if i can pick your brain a little bit more (as if i havent done that enough ) what do you think of a hollow trunk on the first tree? or am i getting to excited with this idea?

Asus101 wrote:Shouldnt need to use lime sulfur, but still darken the wood a great deal.

Like Mela stated, soft wood rots easy, so when doing dead work keep it in mind. Try to carve the wood as you would see a rotting section of timber to look like.

There are very very few deciduous tree's that wont rot out, prunus mume being one of those few. There is a good article on a bonsai UK edition that I will hunt out. The artist used a hawthorn as its its not suited to the normal jin and shari work seen on junipers and pines (Junipers over 100 years being able to take extensive jin shari work, and pines suited more to shari than jins given most have softer wood. Kimura has made comments on this a number of times).

thanks for the tip with trying to create it to look like rotting wood, and i appreciate all the input people!

regards jamie

thats cool.
People just get too wrapped up and forget where the tree comes from and what conditions it lives in.

Gday Jamie!

Nice trees you got from Jow. Neither are without their challenges, but I think you've done well in choosing them.

Regarding uros and hollows on Tridents: all I have to offer is a few pics in the Drop In On Sunday thread (there are a couple of pics later in the thread). I don't have a link, but Walter Pall's online gallery has a few hollowed out Tridents.

Thanks and good luck.

Fly.

Asus101 wrote:thats cool.
People just get too wrapped up and forget where the tree comes from and what conditions it lives in.

that is true mate. especially when we get excited..(like i do when i get new trees...lol)sometimes hard to stop and wait!

FlyBri wrote:Gday Jamie!

Nice trees you got from Jow. Neither are without their challenges, but I think you've done well in choosing them.

Regarding uros and hollows on Tridents: all I have to offer is a few pics in the Drop In On Sunday thread (there are a couple of pics later in the thread). I don't have a link, but Walter Pall's online gallery has a few hollowed out Tridents.

Thanks and good luck.


Fly.

true about there challeges but i am happy with my purchases! and your trident looks great. i love the look of the hollows and such, i would like to see this tree in leaf? has it come out of its dormancy yet?

and i will check out walters tridents too

Hollow trunk would work but be sure you have a run off... even if it means making a hole at the lower back so the water can get out easily. Plus the fact, why give mosquito wrigglers another incubator.

Lime sulphur is good stuff. Secret is to dampen the wood before applying it. The wood should be wet but not dripping. Carefully apply the LS full strength to deadwood and BE SURE NOT to get drips on the soil because it will kill roots. The lime sulphur will dry yellow then overnight turn to silver. Within weeks it will darken and if it is not dark enough than get a $2 shop black water colour and gently touch it up to soften the colours. LS behaves differently on different woods as to whether it is glaring white, soft grey or many shades of grey to pewter and slate. But you can use cheap and cheerful black water colour to alter the finish. So don't discount Lime Sulphur.

DO NOT DO NOW!

winter when the tree is dormant or you will get die back.

Here's a bit of inspiration for the hollow.

Jamie, have a look at my Casuarina rebirth thread. It will show you what to do and covers the lime sulphur mixed with Sumi ink (which can be substituted with Indian ink to blacken it).
Pup