AusBonsai

Hello guys

A couple of photos of my jbp, only had for a year or so now and Im just after some feedback or advice on creating apex's with JBP as its something I'm struggling with to grasp and for-see in my tree I'm thinking would it be best to decide on what branches to use in the top of the tree after decandling and a bit of growth has been put on again??

Cheers,

winter last year today (front) today (back) Today (apex)

im still learning JBPS myself but i can see a solution to your apex problem.
Looks like there is 2 branches coming from the same spot lower on your trunk.. i would reduce to just the thicker one that forks off... wire this down slightly.

Reduce the branches at your apex to 2, wire one down as a second branch and wire one up as the new apex...

will only leave you with 3 main branches but it looks like a small tree so with some ramification it should work...

very crude virt attached...

EDIT: not saying to do this at this time of year!

Mbunro wrote:im still learning JBPS myself but i can see a solution to your apex problem.
Looks like there is 2 branches coming from the same spot lower on your trunk.. i would reduce to just the thicker one that forks off... wire this down slightly.

Reduce the branches at your apex to 2, wire one down as a second branch and wire one up as the new apex...

will only leave you with 3 main branches but it looks like a small tree so with some ramification it should work...

very crude virt attached...

EDIT: not saying to do this at this time of year!

thanks for the tip Mbunro! it is a very small tree indeed. Will do some chops and wiring when the time is right mate, cheers

Yank the branches down. Pine branches shouldn’t be horizontal. This will compact the tree and make it look natural.

You have a great trunk.

Take a look at this thread too in regards to the apex;

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10138

I think with time you have a winner.

Daluke wrote:Yank the branches down. Pine branches shouldn’t be horizontal. This will compact the tree and make it look natural.

This will make more likely make it look artificial and contrived. It's a mind set we need to recover from. Pine branches can be anything from vertical to horizontal. In nature they are usually upright not down swept. I have said before that when I finally realized I could wire pine branches up it was like being un-plugged from the matrix. No one does it yet (including all the ''masters'') but it's a just a matter of time until they start to.

To follow on from Treeman it is my understanding the downward branches is representative of Japan (Both in nature and replified in Bonsai), where the weight of the snow in winter works to weigh down and bend the branches.

On a recent trip to Japan just before winter, they had set up ropes and bamboo to try keep branches in place from going any lover/snapping.

If these ropes were not set up in these Kanazawa gardens, the branches would be angled lower and lower each winter as they extend due to the weight of the winter snow.

Sorry for the photo hijack but seemed relevant to the discussion. Goodluck with whatever decision you decide to go with.

Cheers,
Pearcy.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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This will make more likely make it look artificial and contrived. It's a mind set we need to recover from. Pine branches can be anything from vertical to horizontal. In nature they are usually upright not down swept. I have said before that when I finally realized I could wire pine branches up it was like being un-plugged from the matrix. No one does it yet (including all the ''masters'') but it's a just a matter of time until they start to.


Awesome shots Treeman and Pearcy001. It does make you think outside the box of what we "should" and "cant" do in bonsai. Everything varies so much in nature from climatic conditions. We have a stand of really awesome windblown shrubby casuarinas (knee hight) at Lennox Head that I have never really seen anywhere else! Swung a bit of topic here but a good discussion I think

demps wrote: A couple of photos of my jbp, only had for a year or so now and I'm thinking would it be best to decide on what branches to use in the top of the tree after decandling and a bit of growth has been put on again

Too early for styling those branches either up, down, horizontal or inside-out , - I'd let it grow for 5+ years (minimum), & come back then to re-assess the question.

Hi,

It really depends on what you want from this tree. If you want to grow the base and overall size it would be best to allow a leader/sacrifice branch while shaping and pruning along the lines of your future design concept below the leader/sacrifice branch.

You can speed up growth by increasing the container size or using field growing techniques. Styrafoam boxes from the fruit market or shallow rectangular storage tubs, if you have a drill to whack in some drainage holes, will do a great job. In my opinion these are better than regular plastic pots as they allow lateral growth of the roots.

If you de-candle and ramify the whole tree while leaving it in a container of that size or a bonsai pot then growth will be very slow. With no definite accuracy whatsoever, growing it out for 5 years could see equivalent growth to 15 years or more with total pruning and restriction of the roots.

So determine or consider your phase. Are you developing or refining?

It is entirely possible for you to develop a future apex below a sacrifice branch depending of course on where your buds are. You can also add some shape to the sacrifice with an eye to creating a jin, which can be framed nicely by the apex.

Developing the apex takes time, experience and a certain degree of skill. As you build ramification in the area you wish the apex to be it will become apparent and is then a continual process of selecting the correct buds (in terms of their vigour) and fine plucking of needles. An apex, like a bonsai is never 'finished' and will require maintenance till death do you part.

I understand that this is not a direct answer to your question and may leave you with even more questions... such is bonsai!

I agree 100% with some earlier responses on the turning down of branches. It is totally a design choice. You do not have to do it. It can look nice but it is entirely up to your interpretation of the tree itself and what it speaks to you and your own personal aesthetic choices. It does represent the effect of heavy snow fall on branches over many season.

Good Luck and thanks for reading!

Jiro wrote:
....personal aesthetic choices.
....represent the effect of heavy snow fall on branches over many season.

Yes it is supposed to represent the weight of snow along with the weight of the branch itself.
The reality of course is that it has nothing to do with personal aesthetics. We may look at a natural tree with awe, but when we sit down to ''make'' a tree, we fall back on what is safe. It is a decision made for us, taught to us, and so deeply instilled that it's probably not overstating the situation if you said many could have a good crack at doing it blindfolded. There is no real thinking involved - insofar as imagination - because we feel bound by a ridged set of parameters.

Demps: photos of the wind-blown Casuarinas please! No good just talking about the damn things...

Gavin

treeman wrote:

Jiro wrote:
....personal aesthetic choices.
....represent the effect of heavy snow fall on branches over many season.

Yes it is supposed to represent the weight of snow along with the weight of the branch itself.
The reality of course is that it has nothing to do with personal aesthetics. We may look at a natural tree with awe, but when we sit down to ''make'' a tree, we fall back on what is safe. It is a decision made for us, taught to us, and so deeply instilled that it's probably not overstating the situation if you said many could have a good crack at doing it blindfolded. There is no real thinking involved - insofar as imagination - because we feel bound by a ridged set of parameters.

I like to walk my own path... or at least the path that the attempted bonsai tree and the trees I see in nature show me, the Tao. Probably won't win shows that way but that isn't why I do bonsai.

It's art! Jackson Pollack is incomparable to Michelangelo or Hokusai but they all worked in the same sphere.

Have you ever seen a magnificent ficus in the forest with a stumpy little canopy? Cause I haven't but every ficus bonsai I see is, in my opinion, way too compact. Just my opinion, perhaps as valuable as a fart in the wind.

GavinG wrote:Demps: photos of the wind-blown Casuarinas please! No good just talking about the damn things...

Gavin

Will take a walk soon buddy and upload

Thanks, Gavin