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Decandling the pines
Posted: December 21st, 2018, 8:19 pm
by shibui
[New black pine growers please note that the following does NOT apply to developing pines. Decandling is a technique used on pines that have reached some maturity.
It is mid December and at Shibui Bonsai that means it is time to cut the more developed pines.
decandle pines 2018 01.JPG
decandle pines 2018 04.JPG
That black pine has just gone into the pot in spring. There were a few longer shoots that did not get decandled last year.
decandle pines 2018 02.JPG
Cut back to older needles to get buds further back along these long branches.
decandle pines 2018 03.JPG
Another one still developing so I've left a couple of sacrifice branches untrimmed to add thickness to the trunk and first branch.
decandle pines 2018 05.JPG
decandle pines 2018 06.JPG
Re: Decandling the pines
Posted: December 21st, 2018, 10:06 pm
by Ryszil
Thanks Shibui, this will come in handy
Re: Decandling the pines
Posted: December 22nd, 2018, 8:12 pm
by Matt S
Hi Shibui,
Do you do the “remove weaker candles first then do the rest after 10 days” routine or is that something that’s hard for someone like yourself with so many trees to look after?
Matt.
Re: Decandling the pines
Posted: December 23rd, 2018, 6:46 am
by Ryceman3
Great post shibui, the middle set of images showing the cut back to older needles I think is something that gets glossed over/overlooked quite a bit when talking about pine decandling, it’s a good illustration of that. I have just decandled my pines last week too. This is a couple of weeks later than last year which I hope will result in more compact growth of the second flush... we’ll see.
Re: Decandling the pines
Posted: December 23rd, 2018, 8:47 am
by Max
Hi Neil
just wondering if that's a second trunk or a sacrificial branch? and why it's not in a grow pot? probably a dumb question
but, hey, that's me "no idea"
Re: Decandling the pines
Posted: December 23rd, 2018, 1:12 pm
by shibui
Do you do the “remove weaker candles first then do the rest after 10 days” routine or is that something that’s hard for someone like yourself with so many trees to look after?
There were so many different versions of this floating around a few years ago that it was difficult to decide which to follow. I'm pretty sure it was Ryan Oneil, at a AABC sminar, who told us he couldn't keep track so had simplified the process - all candles cut at the same time.
It may take a couple of seasons to really iron out the growth imbalances but seems to work just fine and loads simpler to remember and implement.
The other think I remember him saying about pine maintenance was to pick one method and use it for at least 3 years. Swapping methods does not allow the process to work properly.
Hi Neil
just wondering if that's a second trunk or a sacrificial branch? and why it's not in a grow pot
Assuming you are talking about the 3rd tree Max. Definitely a sacrifice branch. Look really close and you may be able to spot the scar right opposite where a second one was removed a couple of years ago.
That tree only went into the pot this spring. Before that it was in a 20cm orchid pot (30cm?
) The reason for going small prematurely is the size and vigour. I'm having trouble containing the growth - look at the long first branch (right side)
I'm hoping the smaller pot will help manage the growth while it continues to develop so I can keep it as a small bonsai without getting super thick or long branches. Yes, it may take a few extra years to reach where I want it but I hope that extra time will be more than made up for in quality.
Also the trunk is already not too bad. A little extra base width is always welcome so I'll leave the sacrifice branch until the branches have bulked up enough to be worth showing to gain just a little extra.
Re: Decandling the pines
Posted: December 23rd, 2018, 1:26 pm
by Max
Can i ask why you decandled the sacrificial?
Re: Decandling the pines
Posted: December 23rd, 2018, 4:24 pm
by shibui
Yep, ask away
Re: Decandling the pines
Posted: December 26th, 2018, 12:01 pm
by Ryszil
Sorry to butt in before you get to ask your question Max but I've been reading and watching a lot of videos on decandling JBP's and hace a couple of questions. One video explains to look for the gap in between the needles and cut there.
181226 JBP1.jpg
Do I stop at the red line or go all the way back to the blue line?
Another video talks about when more than one has grown, is this where I choose 2 of the candles, preferably asymmetrically placed and remove the rest?
Re: Decandling the pines
Posted: December 26th, 2018, 1:35 pm
by shibui
One video explains to look for the gap in between the needles and cut there.
They forget to say that this applies for trees that are in maintenance mode and have been decandled before, in which case there's rarely anywhere else to cut.
Your tree has probably not been decandled and is probably just moving into the 'maintenance' phase so it has growth from several years.
Do I stop at the red line or go all the way back to the blue line?
This depends what your aim is. If a long, skinny, bare branch is desirable then just cut at the red and the new buds will brow from there with occasional ones further back. Most people would like the ramification to start further back, closer to the trunk. In this case cut back further. Personally I would go even further back and cut about halfway into that lower bunch of needles. New buds will grow just the same as above but will be closer to the start of that branch and will give you better options.
Pine rule: You can prune anywhere there are healthy needles and be reasonably assured of buds emerging. Do not prune back to bare wood because pines only rarely bud from bare bark.
[/Another video talks about when more than one has grown, is this where I choose 2 of the candles, preferably asymmetrically placed and remove the rest?quote] Yes, but that is usually done at the end of summer. As it was not done then you should still do it now. Pines have strong areas (near the top of the tree and ends of stronger branches) In such areas take off the larger shoots and leave 2 of the better placed smaller ones. In weaker areas it is preferable to leave the stronger ones because that helps to even out the vigour of the tree. Over a few years of proper maintenance pruning/decandling you should see all parts of the tree gradually get to similar vigour.
I note that both the branches you have shown are quite long. This is often the case with fast grown pine stock. They will not get any shorter with decandling. New buds will be rare along the bare sections so these branches will always be bare. Hopefully there are a few smaller shoots further back in which case I would probably cut these back to the lowers shoots and begin growing a branch with plenty of side branches. If no lower shoots: Can you do without those branches in the design? Wiring and bending can sometimes help bring the growing parts back closer to the trunk but sometimes also looks artificial. Sometimes grafting new shoots is the only option to fill bare areas.
Hope all the above makes some sense. Pines are far easier to explain when you have one in front of you to point and show. For those who have opportunity, clubs are a great source of this sort of practical help.