AusBonsai

Hi all,

I’m growing jp black pines from cuttings and I need help in understanding what is the correct way to develop it for best results later on.
I understand the concept of refinement on a ready to style jpb pine but what should I do now that I’m just growing? Should I worry about energy balancing? Should I worry where there are multiple shoots from one point instead of the classic 2?
What else should I do to grow the best stock possible for later on?

Thank you all!

Tad

Bump!

What type of tree do you want? Big or small?

Low shots will not develop while the top is growing well. Low shoots may even die if the top is growing well. If you plan on using the low shoots you need to monitor them closely. If they show signs of weakening further remove most of the top so the low shoots can grow. It may be that you will cut low then allow the tree to grow up from those low shoots until similar thing happens again and cut back a second and maybe third time until the trunk is suitable thickness.
Multi shoots are only an issue if you plan to use that section in the final tree. much of the tree will be cut away, probably several times while it develops so only thin shoots on sections you think will be part of the final design.

New shoots will grow anywhere there are needles so at any time you can prune trunks or branches back to the oldest healthy needles and be reasonably assured of getting replacement buds which will subsequently grow into new branches, trunk, etc. Black pine needles generally stay healthy for 2-3 years so trees can be allowed to grow freely for that long then cut back hard to the lowest needles or to lower shoots if you have them.

There is not just one way. Several possible ways depending on what you have and what you need to achieve.
All this is much easier to explain in person with a tree as an example.

Daluke wrote:What type of tree do you want? Big or small?

I don't want a massive trunk, I'll be happy with 3/4 cm diameter at the base... and now?

shibui wrote:Low shots will not develop while the top is growing well. Low shoots may even die if the top is growing well. If you plan on using the low shoots you need to monitor them closely. If they show signs of weakening further remove most of the top so the low shoots can grow. It may be that you will cut low then allow the tree to grow up from those low shoots until similar thing happens again and cut back a second and maybe third time until the trunk is suitable thickness.
Multi shoots are only an issue if you plan to use that section in the final tree. much of the tree will be cut away, probably several times while it develops so only thin shoots on sections you think will be part of the final design.

New shoots will grow anywhere there are needles so at any time you can prune trunks or branches back to the oldest healthy needles and be reasonably assured of getting replacement buds which will subsequently grow into new branches, trunk, etc. Black pine needles generally stay healthy for 2-3 years so trees can be allowed to grow freely for that long then cut back hard to the lowest needles or to lower shoots if you have them.

There is not just one way. Several possible ways depending on what you have and what you need to achieve.
All this is much easier to explain in person with a tree as an example.

Thanks Shibui I wish there was only one way I don't have time to learn from my mistakes and I don't want it either!
The information you provided is great and that makes me realise that I don't want to lose the bottom shoots, so I will then found the courage and cut entirely the top so the bottom can get some energy and continue growing, form new buds!
I will update this thread

p.s.
By the way that was the first wooden box I made and from reused wood I found on the street! Pretty pleased with myself

I’d be thinking about thinning the needles along the length of the dominant (sacrifice), leaving foliage just at the end. This will allow light onto the bottom shoots and increase their chance of survival/maximise their health and utilisation potential in the future. It also means you can keep the sacrifice to bulk up your trunk. If you haven’t already, have a look at the bonsai tonight blog... good info there, definitely worth the read. Cutting back your sacrifice will set you back unless you have another waiting to take its place.


PS: grow box looks the goods!

http://www.phutu.com/sample-page/index/
https://bonsaitonight.com/tag/black-pine/

Both great sources for development of pine bonsai

Scott Roxburgh wrote:http://www.phutu.com/sample-page/index/
https://bonsaitonight.com/tag/black-pine/

Both great sources for development of pine bonsai

Wow! Thank you Scott. Browsing at lunchtime and these links look magnificent; many hrs of good reading ahead. Not he least the art behind the
Bonsai Kayak!

Ryceman3 wrote:I’d be thinking about thinning the needles along the length of the dominant (sacrifice), leaving foliage just at the end. This will allow light onto the bottom shoots and increase their chance of survival/maximise their health and utilisation potential in the future. It also means you can keep the sacrifice to bulk up your trunk. If you haven’t already, have a look at the bonsai tonight blog... good info there, definitely worth the read. Cutting back your sacrifice will set you back unless you have another waiting to take its place.


PS: grow box looks the goods!

That makes perfect sense! I will thin and post an update!

Scott Roxburgh wrote:http://www.phutu.com/sample-page/index/
https://bonsaitonight.com/tag/black-pine/

Both great sources for development of pine bonsai

Thanks for the links! I will be reading!

Finally found some time to update the thread with the clean up of the jbp! What you guys think? I also moved them all in the newly made wooden boxes!
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Ask about how much fertiliser to use and when.

Here is an example of a hardwood cutting in a porous clay pot.
Soil is a simple mix of 70 5mm silica based gravel and 30 aged compost.

Placement is full sun.
Aged compost is sifted compost, left moist in a barrel with a cover.
In the darkness the weeds will germinate and die.

Soil mix.
With the advice of forestry folk on our side.
Laters.
Tambrand

Tambrand wrote:Ask about how much fertiliser to use and when.

Here is an example of a hardwood cutting in a porous clay pot.
Soil is a simple mix of 70 5mm silica based gravel and 30 aged compost.

Placement is full sun.
Aged compost is sifted compost, left moist in a barrel with a cover.
In the darkness the weeds will germinate and die.

Soil mix.
With the advice of forestry folk on our side.
Laters.
Tambrand

super.jpg

I’m guessing you are saying I shouldn’t have used fertiliser now?


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