AusBonsai

I've been wiring like a madman the last few weeks, mostly pines and junipers in an attempt to bring a few of my trees under control and push them to a better standard i.e. stop stuffing around and wire every branch and do it properly.

This JBP is a prime example. The main branches were wired about 3 years ago and since then I've just been concentrating on getting the whole needle reduction process happening (I'm relatively new to the proper techniques for pines ) but now I'm thinking it'll be ready for a proper pot in a few years so let's get it looking nice.

It took about 4 hours to wire the whole thing, luckily I enjoy wiring!
Matt.

Matt S wrote:stop stuffing around and wire every branch and do it properly..

Yeah ... it really does make a big difference doesn't it - your before/after images are proof of that. It takes a long time but it is time well spent. Your pine is looking the goods because of it!

Sit back and look what you have acheived! This is why bonsai gives you pleasure
...........OK
.... that is enough sitting back
....find another tree to work on.

I agree that wiring is important to make those fine adjustments to the layout of the branches and sub branches though maybe you have spread the lowest branch out just a bit too much for my tastes. I've noted that international bonsai headliners tend to 'stack' some of the finer branches to build up some density in the pads. ie cross some smaller branches over into the centre of the branch. Spreading everything out wide leaves the middle of the branch open and bare.

It took about 4 hours to wire the whole thing, luckily I enjoy wiring!

Now imagine your tree in a couple of years when ramification has doubled. Seems like a great thing to have really advanced trees but I'm finding it can take hours just to prune. Wiring a really well advanced bonsai is sometimes spread over a couple of days

This is why bonsai gives you pleasure
...........OK
.... that is enough sitting back
....find another tree to work on.

Correct on all counts!

Now imagine your tree in a couple of years when ramification has doubled. Seems like a great thing to have really advanced trees but I'm finding it can take hours just to prune. Wiring a really well advanced bonsai is sometimes spread over a couple of days

The time spent wiring this tree was spread out over a week. I have young kids so I either wait until they're asleep or get in early before they're awake. I'm really tired.

Your point about the time needed for advanced trees is a good one. When you spend a whole day needle plucking an advanced tree you soon realize you have to manage the number of trees you look after. Occasionally we all have to make hard decisions about trees we've had for a long time and think about how much time we're prepared to spend on them.

Matt.

Matt S wrote:

This is why bonsai gives you pleasure
...........OK
.... that is enough sitting back
....find another tree to work on.

Correct on all counts!

Now imagine your tree in a couple of years when ramification has doubled. Seems like a great thing to have really advanced trees but I'm finding it can take hours just to prune. Wiring a really well advanced bonsai is sometimes spread over a couple of days

The time spent wiring this tree was spread out over a week. I have young kids so I either wait until they're asleep or get in early before they're awake. I'm really tired.

Your point about the time needed for advanced trees is a good one. When you spend a whole day needle plucking an advanced tree you soon realize you have to manage the number of trees you look after. Occasionally we all have to make hard decisions about trees we've had for a long time and think about how much time we're prepared to spend on them.

Matt.

That's the main reason I sold off a lot of pines . Between 2 jobs, a hobby farm , wanting to travel overseas more I simply didn't have the time and lost interest . If you really have the time to put into pines they will reward you but if you let them go bringing them back can take a lot of time.

I'm going - or trying to go - in the opposite direction. That is - trying to learn how to avoid wiring. It is very difficult!

I'm going - or trying to go - in the opposite direction. That is - trying to learn how to avoid wiring. It is very difficult!

Must be particularly hard with pines, so much upward growth!

Matt S wrote:

I'm going - or trying to go - in the opposite direction. That is - trying to learn how to avoid wiring. It is very difficult!

Must be particularly hard with pines, so much upward growth!

Yes. But what I mean is that I'd like to wire (or shape) in such a way that you cannot tell the tree has been wired. Also, to leave branches growing in more or less the direction you want unwired instead of wiring every twig which gives the inevitable results.. To use hard cutting as a means to get sharp or angular directional changes which is common in natural pines but impossible with wiring. To use the natural movement of branches as a foundation rather than forcing a new artificial one. Unfortunately with these methods it's often 2 steps forward and one back - and of course no one I know of who I can copy because no one does it.

An example..
This is a small scots pine and below one possible future for it. That would involve sever needle reduction and fining out of the twigs which in turn would require keeping the tree half starved and repotting infrequently.

Mike, I always admire the way you never rest on your laurels and continually push yourself hard.

Cut and grow produces the most natural movement, but I guess the time involved puts a lot of people off. We want to be Mr. Miyagi with our scissors rather than cutting back hard with secateurs.

Matt.

This observation is somewhat tangential to the current discussion but it took me a good few minutes to understand the relationship to the drawing and the actual tree.

Call me slow.

I’m thinking: “I would not expect Treeman to copy an ancient drawing - take inspiration from art for sure - but copy? Hmmm.“

Then I think:

“Man that’s a good copy that Shari is almost an exact replication.”

Near impossible... And the I look at the date on the drawing:

“Ah! The drawing is from 2018 younger than the tree; the drawing is of tree - at least the current and a possible future canopy”

I’m slow.

Bloody hell - cool to be able to put your mind’s eye to the future on paper like that.

I’m somewhat envious. Again.

How is it that people can have the talent in the art of bonsai, the science horticulture, creativity and the skill to draw.

There are a number folk on this forum with that combination of skills (and of course more) and all of the folk that I see with such a mix are leading exponents of this ancient art. Interesting....

Bummer. I can draw for sh!t and I’m no horticulturalist.

Oh well. I’ll keep an open mind, feed my desire to try different techniques and I’ll continue to learn. No doubt there’ll be some raging failures and the odd success along the way.

By the way. Both cool trees.
There should be little doubt that both the trees will become great as the years progress because the skill of the artists involved.

Enjoy your Saturday everyone.

PS - I also enjoy understanding the provenance of a tree. Imagine that tree passing through generations of family or whatever form of custodianship and along with the tree go original drawings etc...

Cool.



Bonsai teaches me patience.
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Matt S wrote:Mike, I always admire the way you never rest on your laurels and continually push yourself hard.

Cut and grow produces the most natural movement, but I guess the time involved puts a lot of people off. We want to be Mr. Miyagi with our scissors rather than cutting back hard with secateurs.

Matt.

True that.

Now imagine your tree in a couple of years when ramification has doubled. Seems like a great thing to have really advanced trees but I'm finding it can take hours just to prune. Wiring a really well advanced bonsai is sometimes spread over a couple of days

One of the statements that has stuck with me from Ryan Neil's live series is that the Pines really only need heavy work a couple of times a year, whereas many other species need constant attention for months at a time.

I guess this is a good reason to have more Pines and less needy plants if you're looking to reduce your involvement with your trees?

Matt S wrote: stop stuffing around and wire every branch and do it properly.

Hey Matt,
here is a JBP shown at the 1979 Kokufu. Don't think the styler shared your same thoughts?

Keep Calm and Ramify wrote:

Matt S wrote: stop stuffing around and wire every branch and do it properly.

Hey Matt,
here is a JBP shown at the 1979 Kokufu. Don't think the styler shared your same thoughts?

1979 pinus thunbergi.jpeg

That tree has been wired a LOT and often!

Here is one which has not....Mind you it's much more difficult if not impossible to get this kind of detail in a black pine, but wiring this tree would quickly destroy it.