AusBonsai

Hi everyone,

Can someone please tell me if the needle plucking and de-candling (rather de-topping in this pine) of the radiata are the same as for the JBP?

I tried finding the answer via Search, but lost courage when 1235 entries were listed.

Lisa

Hi Lisa,
I have not read through all this old thread but the names of members who contributed warrant a read through to see if you can make sense of their experiences and strategies.
https://www.ausbonsai.com.au/forum/view ... iata+pinch

Please let us know if you can distil anything worthwhile from it.

Hi Lisa, I treat Radiata the same way as JBP in all aspects, I m live in the temperate zone..NSW, works for me.

cheers Anthony

Thanks Shibui and Anthony. That's a great link you posted, Shibui. As yet I haven't been able to arrange the observations and recommendations systematically.
I was going to treat my radiata like a JBP, with the encouragement from the Illawarra, until I read one of the posts by Jow, stating that he had better results with treating it like a JWP. I feel like trying the former on one main branch and the latter on another branch. I'm not kidding.
Wanted to attach a photo, but can't work out how to do it after the latest improvements to the website.

Lisa

Check size of file when posting photos. Photos now need to be less than 500K so you'll probably need to reduce file sizes to post.

It will be interesting to see if you can get meaningful observations from applying different techniques on different parts of a tree. I suspect the tree may not respond as intended when a technique is only applied to one area.

It will be interesting to see if you can get meaningful observations from applying different techniques on different parts of a tree. I suspect the tree may not respond as intended when a technique is only applied to one area.

I hadn't thought of that complication. The whole question of reaction may be rendered even less predictable by the fact that this radiata is probably a bit of a hybrid, having been collected up in the Brindabellas among the arboreta there. At least, that is what I was told. It seems radiata hybridize easily.

Thanks for the tip about attachments. See result. Tree destined to become propper bunjin. Branches not visible now, but in fact quite nice.

Keep warm!

Lisa

Ryan Neil just did an episode on this, he is treating them as single flush pines but watching for a second flush.

Thanks, Daniel. That's interesting. Ryan Neil treating the radiata as a single flush pine coincides with Jow's observation that he got better results with treating it as a JWP.... which is a single flush pine.
https://www.bonsaiempire.com/tree-species/pines In this article it says:

Pine species with only one flush of growth must not be decandled because that would harm them, but the candles can be selected and shortened.

Well, I treat my JWP according to the advice by Kimura, that is only to shorten the last flush and never to cut back further. This has worked fine for me, so I guess I'll apply it to the radiata.
This said, lots of people grow radiatas here in canberra, where those trees have almost invaded the countryside, and I've never heard of anyone having any trouble with them. So maybe I've made a lot of noise about nothiing.

Lisa

Radiata are a strange one.

What we know as radiata (forestry trees) has been selectively bred over numbers of years to be quite removed from the original 'Monterey pines' (currently endngered) i believe. As a result, what they are using the US may be quite a different experience to what we collect from the edges of pine forests here. (not sure if they use radiata for forestry and or if we have shared genetics for this)

They are strange in that they grow very strongly and vigorously when young and will tolerate hard cut-back, some de-candling and other stressful processes and will flush once, twice and three times often sending shoots out throughout the growth season.

What i have found is that when they age they slow right down (Although the old bonsai i know may be from earlier collections, and may be more true to the original monterey pine stock) and tend to behave like a single flush species.

I have heard of many different approaches used to grow them but tend to think the single flush (white pine) techniques are most suited from what i have seen.

Hope that helps.

Joe.

From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_radiata

The modern tree is vastly different from the native tree of Monterey.[8] In plantations the tree is commonly planted at 4×4 m spacing on a wide variety of landscapes from flat to moderately steep hills.[8] Because of selective breeding and more recently the extensive use of growth factor seedlings, forests planted since the 1990s are of superior wood with very straight tall trunks without the problem of twin leaders.[8] The trees are pruned in 3 lifts so that the lower 2/3 of a mature tree is free of branches and hence of knots.[8]

So it may be that more recent collected material is vastly different to trees from early plantations. Food for thought.

Many thanks, Joe, that is very interesting and clarifies a lot. It sounds like: 'with Pinus radiatain in our region, you can expect anything but should expect nothing', except maybe when they have aged a decent amount.

Anyway, it also explains why shibui doubted one could draw any firm conclusions from what has been written about this pine so far.

I'll treat mine like a Japanese white pine and hope for the best. It dates from 2003 and was collected from the wayside high up in the hills after the fires that destroyed most of the vegetation there. I pulled it as a little seedling out of the dry sand, bare rooted, and it never looked back.

Lisa

Thanks to everyone for their contributions to this thread, I have a couple of collected radiata and I've also been after some simple advice now they have settled down. I've also struggled to get back budding on old wood so now I'll treat them a bit gentler and just shorten the candles.

One question though, both my radiatas have a mixture of juvenile shoots and candles; do other people shorten them by the same amount or treat them any differently?

Matt.

One question though, both my radiatas have a mixture of juvenile shoots and candles; do other people shorten them by the same amount or treat them any differently?

My radiata used to have that mix as well, but I haven't noticed it lately. I just shortened the shoots, but can't remember what kind of new growth or backbudding I got. There must have been something, because the branches didn't die.

Lisa