AusBonsai

hey all,

i have been thinking about carving and the dust that is all around while this is going on.
trees have pores that they breath through right? now if we carve a tree and the dust clogs the pores of the tree, this could cause major problems i am assuming. like leaf death, especially on deciduous.

how would you go about removing the dust from the brathing pores on the tree? i was thinking spraying with water, but you would need a decent pressure as just a pressure pack doesnt seem to have the strength in it to puch the dust out, as a wet dust it seems to stick even better to the tree.

i am asking this as my elm that has had some recent work done to it has had its most of its new flush of leaves go from being a fresh, healthy green, to a dried dead brown. this tree is still alive and well, i know this throught the scratch tests. but i am thinking i might get rid of the leaves that are left, and prune heavy to try and get a flush of new healthy growth?

what do you guys think???

jamie

no where near as dangerous as is to your clogging up your soil if not covered. i have a paint brush 2.5" and sweep dust off branches and leaves first then pressure spray with hose.

anttal63 wrote:no where near as dangerous as is to your clogging up your soil if not covered. i have a paint brush 2.5" and sweep dust off branches and leaves first then pressure spray with hose.

hmm, interesting, the dust clogging up the soil, maybe holding water longer than it should? this is something i didnt consider... so you think the dead leaves are more due to an water log problem than the breathing pores being clogged?

so i take it this is something that hasnt just happened to me before than either, there are others out there that have had problems?
please do tell us your experiences and the ways you resolved the problems

jamie

leaf dying; perhaps to do with the water or carving the wrong time. i only carve new wood in winter. detailing wood that is already dead anytime. but the saw dust definately clogs.

well thats the thing, i didnt cut into any new wood on it so its got me puzzled, i think i will have to go with a soil check, it hasnt been bad though because i check my soil before i water, it is always just moist when i water so i am not sure that its that either.

the strip i took out down the trunk was a dead section too, so i dont think that could of cause any problems because there isnt any branches above the line i took out and the root it went to was dead wood also...

all that was done was refinement, took the dead wood that was over the cut section down under the level of the cut section..
its a conundrum to me.

jamie

did you do major root pruning like a month previous

i lost a tree from doing some vigorous carving about a month and a half after bare rooting, i figured you cant knock the new roots off...

aaron_tas wrote:did you do major root pruning like a month previous

i lost a tree from doing some vigorous carving about a month and a half after bare rooting, i figured you cant knock the new roots off...

nope, been in the pot for about a year, it did go through a bit of stress on the root system though getting knocked around a bit and moving around, other than that, it was settled and pushing healthy strong growth.

jamie

I have carved a heap of trees and done really [as in REALLY] extensive carving and I have not lost one. After each carving session I remove most of the sawdust from the soil surface so it doesn't clog and then spray the tree. Whether it is a shower spray or a light jet spray, enough to remove dust, don't have to blast the leaves off. I might jet the soil surface but I am carving trees in training pots, not bonsai pots, so I have some soil to play with.

I would defoliate the elm and let it sort itself out.

Also, I never carve newly repotted trees - except the olive stump I JAMMED into a small training pot and have done a lot of carving on it. I want to get it in decent soil and a regular training pot but I am not finished carving and refining and won't move the tree until I do. Carving a newly repotted tree is pushing your luck as there is a lot of pressure on the trunk when you are carving and it could break off new roots.

I have done touch ups to reasonably newly repotted trees but it is just that, touch ups, not extensive carving. No sense wasting time carving if the tree is going to die and if it has to endure constant root movement the roots are going to break. I just repotted the Grey Myrtle I had carved and put in the ausbonsai 'for sale' ads. During repotting I discovered an additional 8 cm of ever thicker, lovelier trunk, part of which needs to have the carving extended down but I now can't do that for a year until the tree is rock solid. I don't want to risk losing it.

this doesnt sound like ya soil. i know ya said green test but is that on the branches and shoots the leaves fell off? did you miss a water on a hot day or wind.
defloiate and maybe a light cut back not too heavy.

anttal63 wrote:this doesnt sound like ya soil. i know ya said green test but is that on the branches and shoots the leaves fell off? did you miss a water on a hot day or wind.
defloiate and maybe a light cut back not too heavy.

yes mate, green on the branches that the leaves fell off, green on the trunk aswell.
i havent missed a watering for the tree since i have had it

i think defoliation and a light prune will be in order, then probly into a shady, protected spot where the wind cant hit it, because i do have some wind problems at the moment, but i dont think that it is the problem, it has handled wind before, and i mean strong wind and havent had any probs, its even been through a couple of near cyclonic winds and been strong..


jamie

What I do when carving is to cover the soil up with an old towel and tape around the trunk. Wear a face mask and protective glasses for your protection. Any dust on the bark and leaves will wash off with a watering wand, so no worries there.

Ash

thanks for the tip ash,

i defoliated the tree this after noon, cut back some, but not to much everything was still all green in cambium wise.
what i did take careful notice of though was the leaves that were still green, the tops of the leaves were clear of any dust, but under them had a dust like substance (i am presuming it was dust, no pics, wouldnt have been able to focus the camera) so this comes to my original question, where are the breathing pores on the leaves, i would presume the top but i could be wrong.

and if it wasnt carving dust under the leaves then what could it have possibly been?

jamie

its a mystery, keep hunting inspector, im sure you will find the answers.

dont worry mate, i will

after a quick bit of reading it seems that the dust could be the cause of the leaves dying, the leaves have breathing pores on them called lenticels these evaporate moisture in the creation of food for the tree in combination of sunlight forming clorophyll. thus if these a blocked my any means (carving dust for instance) the leaves will naturally die of and cause a new flush of growth, much like defoliation of a tree when transplanted at the wrong time, you defoliate to stop moisture loss, from this i take it that i have actually prevented a major problem because if left to long it could of possibly killed the tree the fact that it was very healthy and still pushing a little growth helped out.

unknowingly i caused this, i did use my watering wand to wash off as much as i could but i didnt get it all obviously thus causing the blockage.
i think this was the problem as i couldnt find any fungus or insect/bug that had this sort of look of what i found.

so the defoliation and the prune then being put in a shady spot for a while should see a new flush of growth in about 4-6 weeks

will keep you all updated

jamie