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Pre-bonsai design suggestions Pinus sylvestris watereri
Posted: August 16th, 2020, 7:55 am
by Per PF
Hey guys,
I have this Pinus sylvestris watereri that I'm at a loss with, design wise.
I'm not going to style it until next spring (it's late summer here) because it has been through a lot the past winter: root aphids, water logging and freezing. It has had its flush of growth though, so I have hopes.
As for the design I'm open to anything at this point...
The trunk is about 5 cm in diameter at the base.
IMG_2535.jpeg
FRONT VIEW.
Skärmavbild 2020-08-15 kl. 23.39.25.png
BACK
Skärmavbild 2020-08-15 kl. 23.40.31.png
FROM ABOVE (WITH FRONT UP).
Skärmavbild 2020-08-15 kl. 23.39.49.png
FROM ABOVE (WITH FRONT TO RIGHT).
Appreciate any and all ideas, cheers

Re: Pre-bonsai design suggestions Pinus sylvestris watereri
Posted: August 16th, 2020, 6:10 pm
by Ryceman3
Giving it a chance to regain strength and vigour seems like a sound plan to me given all the stuff you mention. Hard to get a good overall feel for the tree from your pics but it looks like there is a lot of “leggy” growth that can make options problematic, although back budding on Scots pine is certainly achievable, you definitely want it to be strong to give you the best options. Looks like a long term project (Nothing wrong with that)... how are the roots, is there something there that gives you a starting point for design direction? (Maybe that’s why you give a suggested front)
Re: Pre-bonsai design suggestions Pinus sylvestris watereri
Posted: August 16th, 2020, 8:36 pm
by Per PF
Thanks for the answer. It is long and leggy, one of the reasons I'm struggling to find a clear vision. The rootball, as I recall, was quite dense with lots of fine roots. I had to cut back a lot of it due to the aphids, so it was only about 12 x 12 cm across and fairly round. The suggested front is very temporary and only based on the trunk/base being wide there.
Re: Pre-bonsai design suggestions Pinus sylvestris watereri
Posted: August 17th, 2020, 7:43 am
by KIRKY
With it being so leggy you could look at a possible Literati. I lot of trees grow out on an angle we usually plant them straight in the pots, see if finding an angle can give you a better idea of style. In the mean time make sure you start feeding after 4 weeks of your repot. Feed well and often if you want your tree to start back budding. Also you have a few points where more that one branch is coming from the same point in some cases I noticed three branches from one point these will create a thick knuckle in those areas. Focus on what design you may achieve carefully tilting the pot as you go etc... To find your future design and remove the cross branches as soon as you can to avoid the thickening knuckles.
Cheers
Kirky
Re: Pre-bonsai design suggestions Pinus sylvestris watereri
Posted: August 18th, 2020, 4:49 am
by Per PF
Thanks I'll try tilting it about and fix the 2+ nodes asap

Re: Pre-bonsai design suggestions Pinus sylvestris watereri
Posted: August 18th, 2020, 10:45 am
by shibui
Long, bare branches on pines is a real problem because they are reluctant to back bud on bare wood. You are also limited by the scots pine being a single flush species.
There are no short term solutions but there are a couple of possibilities.
Try to chase foliage back toward the base by encouraging back budding: Feed and allow the tree to grow freely for a year then cut all growth back to the oldest needles. A really strong pine that is growing well will grow new buds in the remaining needles but will usually also put out some emergency buds on the bare sections

Allow them to grow freely to strengthen then prune back to the lower or suitable ones and repeat until you have what you want. This is not without risk and can take 10 years or longer just to get to a more suitable starting point. You will need to check on specific timing for cutback to get best results.
Remove the longest, usually thickest, branches to get live growth as close to the trunk as possible with existing foliage. Wire and bend the remaining branches to compress the tree and bring the existing grow points closer to the trunk. Then grow the result to get ramification. Some of the bends can be hidden with foliage, some can become part of the design - contorted growth tree style? This method is quicker to get started but not always very attractive. Some skill required.
Graft: Longer branches can be bent around so the growing points can be approach grafted onto the bare sections in appropriate places. After the grafts are healed grow the result to create the new tree. Approach grafting is the easiest to do but still requires some technique. It may take a few years to get enough successful grafts to start work. Pines can also be grafted in the traditional way by removing scions and placing them where required. This is neater but requires a little more technique.
Kirky's idea of literati was also my first reaction. It will be the quickest but literati is not easy to do well. I keep looking at the right branch - following the front fork as it appears to have the best possibilities but not sure what is above the first couple of forks.