AusBonsai

G'day all,

I am usually quite confident with the styling and restyling of me trees but I am not sure with my blue Atlantic Cedar.

I've had it growing in a training box to develop nubari and thicken the trunks and have now decided its time to pot into a training pot. It may be a poor time, but I am very limited in this space.

There is little movement and an abundance of branch choice. The wire marks are growing out..slowly and there is damage sustained in a previous bending attempt which is healing but not yet complete. The trunk is quite thick and unyielding.

I am considering taking it to a bonsai specialist for a collaborative approach.

Your thoughts and advice is appreciated.

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Look at natural (habitat) trees for inspiration as to the form. (there are many examples on the web) I would not repot it though.

Cheers, for your comments. I feel concerned that I just haven't really done anything to style this or my other green atlantic cedar which are growing quit large now.

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treeman wrote:Look at natural (habitat) trees for inspiration as to the form. (there are many examples on the web) I would not repot it though.

I greatly appreciate your input. Attached are some pictures for reference of size in each of my cedars. Due to corona I have not been home this year to repot and am only back for a short while.

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Atlantic "gluaca" around and sadly I think that might be for good reasons. I've heard atlas cedar hate repotting, but see mixed advice on repotting ...

I think reducing the height would look nice!

treeman wrote: ↑November 11th, 2020, 10:01 am Look at natural (habitat) trees for inspiration as to the form. (there are many examples on the web) I would not repot it though.

Why the advice not to repot Treeman?

Atlas aint to bad about getting there roots touched . They may not be as forgiving as deodara but its Lebanon cedar I believe that hates it . As with all conifers especially if they are advanced and old trees sometimes slow and steady as a slight reduction is better then going balls in. Of course your climate, after care and season all play a major role also .

I've never found Atlantic Cedars to be particularly touchy about their roots. I treat their roots the same as I do Junipers. I regularly saw through the root ball, removing half the roots and they power away like nothing happened. This spring I removed 75% off one and thought I'd gone too far, but it also powered away.

They're great trees. I don't understand why more people don't grow them. I think it may be because they have this reputation of being touchy.

dansai wrote: ↑November 12th, 2020, 7:03 am

treeman wrote: ↑November 11th, 2020, 10:01 am Look at natural (habitat) trees for inspiration as to the form. (there are many examples on the web) I would not repot it though.

Why the advice not to repot Treeman?

Only because it's in full growth. You might get away with it but a cedar could stay in a box that large for several years. Needs weeding!

Hi Boris,
You've got two nice Atlas cedars there. Not 'Atlantic'. That is derived from the latin name Cedrus atlanticus, which again comes from 'Atlas', i.e. the Atlas mountains of Marocco. The cedars are natives of that region.
I agree with treeman that you should look at those trees in nature. I add one example here.
Imposing, isn't it?!
If your two trees were mine, I wouldn't repot them. You wouldn't gain anything, because they are far from display standard, needing a lot of work, and having those nice big boxes to grow in will help them to develop ---> bonsai. I think your idea of asking someone with experience of bonsai cedars for help is good; once you've found your feet you can go on, on your own.
In the meantime: it's Spring, start of the growing season, so it'd be a pity to waste time. Most essential: remember that every rosette of needles is a potential branch. At the moment you have enough to start a few hundred branches. Have a good look at your tree and decide where you want new branches. Are the shoots (rosettes) on the underside of your primary branch, or pointing up or sideways? Then choose the ones that are likely to grow in the right directions, probably the sideways ones. Remove those that are most likely to be useless, probably those that point straight downward. If that scares you, start by removing part of the undesirables, so that the remainder gets more nutrition. But do clean up what you are sure you won't need in future, like this trunk:
With best wishes,
LLK

Sorry, the illustrations ran away from me.
LLK

LLK wrote:Hi Boris,
You've got two nice Atlas cedars there. Not 'Atlantic'. That is derived from the latin name Cedrus atlanticus, which again comes from 'Atlas', i.e. the Atlas mountains of Marocco. The cedars are natives of that region.
I agree with treeman that you should look at those trees in nature. I add one example here.
Imposing, isn't it?!
If your two trees were mine, I wouldn't repot them. You wouldn't gain anything, because they are far from display standard, needing a lot of work, and having those nice big boxes to grow in will help them to develop ---> bonsai. I think your idea of asking someone with experience of bonsai cedars for help is good; once you've found your feet you can go on, on your own.
In the meantime: it's Spring, start of the growing season, so it'd be a pity to waste time. Most essential: remember that every rosette of needles is a potential branch. At the moment you have enough to start a few hundred branches. Have a good look at your tree and decide where you want new branches. Are the shoots (rosettes) on the underside of your primary branch, or pointing up or sideways? Then choose the ones that are likely to grow in the right directions, probably the sideways ones. Remove those that are most likely to be useless, probably those that point straight downward. If that scares you, start by removing part of the undesirables, so that the remainder gets more nutrition. But do clean up what you are sure you won't need in future, like this trunk:
With best wishes,
LLK

Cheers for the advice LLK, I am a bit unsure of your intent regarding cleaning up the unwanted parts, like this trunk? Are
you suggesting I chop the trunk down, below the previous injury? I think the scale would be all wrong to chop it that low. I had originally intended a large cloud branching informal upright as I have plenty of other 'S' shaped trees on my benches.
I do appreciate all food for thought.

I have removed all downward facing rosettes and the new upward aimed shoots, leaving mostly just the side ones. I am getting some side branching, and am happy with this.

As I am away for most of the year, I will leave thevin the big box for another year. I have just found the roots are escaping through the holes under the box, which may help growth and vigour if I move them to a garden bed.

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Hi Boris,
Good on you, having made a start. As the rosettes you chose start to lengthen into branchlets, leave them to grow for a bit, as you will find that some will turn out more robust than others. Next year you can make a choice again of those that are worth keeping.

I am a bit unsure of your intent regarding cleaning up the unwanted parts, like this trunk? Are you suggesting I chop the trunk down, below the previous injury?

NO ! Certainly not. If you look closely at the section of trunk in the photograph I posted, you'll see that it has a lot of rosettes covering it. It's those that need removing. The trunk itself is fine. Sorry if I was unclear.
Second: If the roots start coming out of the bottom of the pot, the tree is certainly ready for repotting, but best put it in a growing pot about the same size as the box it's in Just not in a bonsai pot. However, I think it's getting a bit late in the season, so best leave it till next year, unless you get different advice from bonsai fans in your area. In the meantime you can cut off the protruding roots, it won't do the tree any harm.

LLK

LLK wrote:Hi Boris,
Good on you, having made a start. As the rosettes you chose start to lengthen into branchlets, leave them to grow for a bit, as you will find that some will turn out more robust than others. Next year you can make a choice again of those that are worth keeping.

I am a bit unsure of your intent regarding cleaning up the unwanted parts, like this trunk? Are you suggesting I chop the trunk down, below the previous injury?

NO ! Certainly not. If you look closely at the section of trunk in the photograph I posted, you'll see that it has a lot of rosettes covering it. It's those that need removing. The trunk itself is fine. Sorry if I was unclear.
Second: If the roots start coming out of the bottom of the pot, the tree is certainly ready for repotting, but best put it in a growing pot about the same size as the box it's in Just not in a bonsai pot. However, I think it's getting a bit late in the season, so best leave it till next year, unless you get different advice from bonsai fans in your area. In the meantime you can cut off the protruding roots, it won't do the tree any harm.

LLK

Cheers again for the good advice, I will clean that trunk up as suggested and remove those extra roots.

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