AusBonsai

I've only grown Tridents because they tend to be tougher than Japanese Maples, but I think the Japanese Maple is the nicer tree, so I would like to have a go but not sure if I can treat them the same as Tridents in terms of developing the roots, nebari, taper and branches. For example, I lift and prune ground grown Tridents every year and have pruned some quite a lot, sometimes removing 90% of the roots with no problems. Don't know if I can do this with Japanese Maples.

Acer palmatum may be better looking but only if structure, shape and leaves are good. Not only are trident hardier but also much easier to create and maintain the aforementioned things.
Both species develop in similar way so use the same techniques to grow roots, trunk and branches.
JM are slower to grow and develop so you may find a 2 year pruning/root pruning cycle works better during development.
JM can also tolerate hard pruning though occasionally die back more. Root pruning is similar. I've also root pruned JM up to 90% but most of us are a little more conservative with root removal compared to tridents.

JM are much more prone to multiple shoots and clusters are much more likely to swell to create inverse taper. Rigorously reduce clusters when shoots appear. You have now been warned.
JM burn much more easily than trident so even though autumn colour is a feature you may not see good colour due to heat damage through summer.
JM appears to be less tolerant of warmer climates. They will grow and survive in warmer areas but don't really thrive as in cooler winter zones.

shibui wrote: ↑May 17th, 2022, 11:30 pm Acer palmatum may be better looking but only if structure, shape and leaves are good. Not only are trident hardier but also much easier to create and maintain the aforementioned things.
Both species develop in similar way so use the same techniques to grow roots, trunk and branches.
JM are slower to grow and develop so you may find a 2 year pruning/root pruning cycle works better during development.
JM can also tolerate hard pruning though occasionally die back more. Root pruning is similar. I've also root pruned JM up to 90% but most of us are a little more conservative with root removal compared to tridents.

JM are much more prone to multiple shoots and clusters are much more likely to swell to create inverse taper. Rigorously reduce clusters when shoots appear. You have now been warned.
JM burn much more easily than trident so even though autumn colour is a feature you may not see good colour due to heat damage through summer.
JM appears to be less tolerant of warmer climates. They will grow and survive in warmer areas but don't really thrive as in cooler winter zones.

Thanks for the comprehensive answer. Can a Japanese Maples handle a Melbourne summer? Or is too much trouble?

I have a couple of JM in Adelaide. They'll grow OK, but the leaves crisp up around the edges once the first hot northerly hits around November. I'm on the plains so it's rare to get decent Autumn colour but people in the hills do better, especially if you can time a partial defoliation and the weather is kind. I'm not too fussed because I prefer how they look in Winter and early Spring anyway.

As with a lot of people, I have a JM because they are a traditional subject and there's lots of information on how to grow them. Mine will never look as good as those growing in cooler climates but I'm happy to have one to tinker with.

Also, if I can suggest some good information on growing Japanese Maples in Melbourne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c3q2jiGh8o

Matt.

JM is widely grown down there.
Melbourne is fine for JM provided you manage water and shade requirements which will vary depending which part of the metro area.
Dandenong ranges are renowned for great JM and other cool climate species but exposed western suburbs may require some wind protection and shade.
Melbourne typically has cloudy autumn days and no real cold so autumn colour is not often as spectacular as cooler hill country.

[/color]

shibui wrote: ↑May 17th, 2022, 11:30 pm
JM burn much more easily than trident so even though autumn colour is a feature you may not see good colour due to heat damage through summer.

I thought when I started reading this line you were going to suggest if he killed it at least it would keep him warmer.....

Matt S wrote: ↑May 18th, 2022, 5:46 pm Also, if I can suggest some good information on growing Japanese Maples in Melbourne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c3q2jiGh8o

Thank for posting the video. Interesting he says that Japanese Maples don't need much water, just a bit more water than pines.

I’ve pretty much given up on JM bonsai ( still use in the garden) here in bayside Melbourne. Every year I nurse them through the heat and sunlight only for a hot wind to decimate the foliage in one day.

Trident is bomb proof pretty much

I thought when I started reading this line you were going to suggest if he killed it at least it would keep him warmer.....

Some of mine (RIP) have done this service but not a lot of heat in a JM bonsai

I am in Melbourne and mine are rewarding me with a great display atm. A little sun protection and keeping them well watered will help avoid summer leaf scorch. That being said i think we just had a fairly mild summer. Much better colour than Tridents I find.

For me, JMs are magical - graceful, elegant, and rewarding in all seasons. For some reason, tridents less so, (stubbier? a bit clunky?) - but they are certainly tougher for me.

I would certainly not leave JMs in the ground for more than a year - they grow quite strongly anyway, and roots thicken, branches get coarse - for me, dig them annually. Well worth ground-growing, but watch for lumps and uglies. Please make sure the trunk does something interesting - not just another fence-post with branches in All The Right Places, parallel to the ground - they can be very dull. JMs should dance gracefully.

I have no trouble with JMs in the hot dry summers of Canberra (OK, my standards can be a bit slack...) - I defoliate anything that's strong in January (even February if I'm slack) and the autumn colour is good.

My main heartbreak with JMs is with root rot - as they get older (and you treasure them more...) they can keel over without warning or good reason. I've had better results with 20+year maples if I give them a year in pure pumice - bare-root them, and clean out the old junk completely. Once every five years or so. They don't turn a hair...

Certainly give them a go,

Gavin

I lost a few young Japanese maple forest to some kind of mould or root rot!!!

I loved ‘em when I had them but alas - I might have killed them from too much love … too much water.

Funny, last time I was at Mike’s joint he noted something along the lines of “How many times do you see Japanese maple wilt?” …. Now before I go any further and to protect Mike’s good name I might be misinterpreting him but in effect - we (sorry I) over water them, keep ‘em too wet…
…. My gums and some other natives droop at the slightest lack of water and yet Japanese Maples seem to hold water and yet I still watered the little trees to death….

Re: Melbourne summer - yeah - I am not putting my JM pots in the heat of the summer day - the leaves are fragile and burn…

… but, I think they are hardier than I give them credit for.

Normal caveats apply - I am no horticulturist… take others advice over mine!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TimS wrote: ↑May 19th, 2022, 2:17 pm Trident is bomb proof pretty much

Just don't let them dry out in summer: I've lost several to a single day's wilt.

I still continue with JM, where I cam one just defoliates the tree after a week of burning winds (it's the wind that's the problem)

And, as someone else pointed out: don't let your JM get wet feet in winter.