AusBonsai

Hi All,

I recently saw a magnificent white pine at my bonsai club meet and since then I've become enamoured with them.

I would love to get one on their own roots, but I haven't been able to find them yet. If anyone knows of where I can get them, please let me know.

The magnificent one I saw was grafted - so I don't mind a grafted one. I'm going to visit conifer gardens this weekend, and they have many different parviflora varieties. https://www.conifer.com.au/search?query=parviflora

For those who know white pines - which ones are recommended for bonsai? (And if you have a more advanced tree in that variety, may I please ask for some photos?) Most of the photos I see from the Kokofu book just say "Pinus Pentaphylla" and don't have the specific variety - but at the same time, conifer gardens don't seem to have a standard "Pinus Parviflora" - they're all varieties.

Thanks! Hopefully I'll have a nice tree in 40 years time

I just purchased a grafted Glauca white pine because it was just impossible to find an ungrafted one, it is what it is I guess, just look for a better graft as some are shocking

I had a young ungrafted one for a time but sold it off during my pine purge from my life which I regret now but ah well. It wasn’t glauca foliage, just a regular green colour nothing amazing looking.

My one has cones so I’m leaving them on the tree to collect seed when they eventually open (no idea how long it takes the cones to mature) and try to germinate some from the seed. I’ve heard on their own roots they can be somewhat weak.

The usual ones used are Koko-no-e and Glauca here, in Japan many are Miyajima which are grafted and very quick growing/ to develop

I have a few seed grown ones, they are slow growing. Tim not so much weak as they don’t want to be too wet. While young I kept them under the eaves to ensue I controlled their watering.
Cheers
Kirky

How many years have you had your seed grown ones and did you have a good success rate?

Any chance you would want to sell one?

This is a short-needled Japanese white pine (Pinus parviflora) which I have had for 15 years. I don't know the name of the variety, sorry. It has been repotted regularly, and various styles have been tried. It has been upright and tilted in various ways and has never complained. You can clearly see the graft, with the stock providing a nice nebari. It does quite well in the Canberra climate without special precautions in in hot Summer- or freezing Winter weather.

Lisa

This is the one I saw that made me think of getting one.



Even though I know it's been grafted, I can't really tell where the graft is, so I don't know what to look for when looking for a younger plant.

Does the graft need to look neat right from the start? Or will bulges blend in over time?

Some grafts bulge out and some do not. I don't think it is possible to predict what will happen.
Neater grafts early will generally be neater later too. Occasionally trunk thickening will absorb a prominent graft and the transition softens but sometimes it can go the other way.

The graft in the photo above is almost certainly right at the first branch/bend so is disguised. White pine has smooth bark and the black pine stock has the plated bark. Grafts at either first branch or at root level are harder to see as there's already a change in the trunk at the transition points.

SuperBonSaiyan wrote:This is the one I saw that made me think of getting one.



Even though I know it's been grafted, I can't really tell where the graft is, so I don't know what to look for when looking for a younger plant.

Does the graft need to look neat right from the start? Or will bulges blend in over time?

Photos don't do this tree justice (Amazing). I hope it's at the Bonsai Northwest show again this year at the end of April.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Agree with Shibui, graft seems to almost certainly be the first branch where it twists upward to continue the trunk line so your eye doesn’t jar at that point and the tree is old enough that the white pine has barked up so it’s slightly less obvious (in photo) that young immature bark is

Hopefully I can see it in person if it’s at the northwest show this year

SuperBonSaiyan,
I’ve had them about 6 years. The few seeds I got all came up so 100%. I’ve given away a few over the years so not looking to sell any at the moment.
Problem with grated trees is they are usually grafted on a JBP for stronger roots but the barks are very different so can stand out some quite badly.
If you’re looking to buy ungrateful stock try Shibui, Neil may have some candle cutting available?
Cheers
Kirky

SuperBonSaiyan wrote: ↑March 2nd, 2023, 11:53 am How many years have you had your seed grown ones and did you have a good success rate?

Any chance you would want to sell one?

KIRKY wrote: ↑March 4th, 2023, 12:17 pm SuperBonSaiyan,
I’ve had them about 6 years. The few seeds I got all came up so 100%. I’ve given away a few over the years so not looking to sell any at the moment.
Problem with grated trees is they are usually grafted on a JBP for stronger roots but the barks are very different so can stand out some quite badly.
If you’re looking to buy ungrateful stock try Shibui, Neil may have some candle cutting available?
Cheers
Kirky

I did check with Neil but no stock available at the moment.

If I manage to get my hands on some seeds I'll definitely reach out to you for some tips! That's a great success rate.

KIRKY wrote: ↑March 4th, 2023, 12:17 pm SuperBonSaiyan,
I’ve had them about 6 years. The few seeds I got all came up so 100%.

I managed to get my hands on 3 white pine seeds today! Pretty excited.

Do you mind sharing your secrets about how to plant them?

When? What medium? How wet or dry? Full sun or part shade?

After care for when they sprout?

Hopefully a few more seeds will fall out of the cones over the next few days but I had three fall out just by shaking the cones lightly. Hopefully that means they're good.

Can't wait to have a decent white pine on it's own roots when I'm 90.

I didn’t do anything out of the ordinary for Pine seeds. Soaked seeds for 24hrs then changed the water soaked again another 24hrs. Into plastic bag with some damp sand and spag. A month in the veggie draw of refrigerator then planted them in damp seed raising mix that I watered the day before. Put the seeds onto the damp mix then lightly covered seeds with some more seed raising mix just to cover the seeds and left them outside in full winter element sun/rain etc.. Don’t water at time of planting seeds.
They did their thing when they were ready, I hardly watered the seedlings as whites tend to like dryer feet. Once they sprouted I placed them in full morning sun until 1-2pm under eves to avoid getting too wet and I controlled their watering. Allow the mix to be almost dry then a light water only until dry again. The easiest way to loose any pine seedlings is to over water. They like damp, not wet feet until they develop an upper story. Even then older whites on their own roots prefer dryer feet to blacks.
Also note when you soak your seeds some will float, others drop to the bottom of the glass. Ones that float are mean to be non viable. Ones that sink are meant to be viable… I don’t worry about it I plant the lot. They decide if they sprout or not.
Good luck with your seeds.
Cheers
Kirky

White pine seed is a bit different to many others. It is in a quite large, hard shell. I had very poor germination from fresh white pine seed just planted into pots but much better result from the seeds I cracked the outer shell.
I've been speculating that either soaking or cold treatment may do the equivalent of shell cracking to allow moisture into the inner seed. I've since seen info that says white pine seed sowed in pots will not usually germinate the first year but should come up the following spring because it requires warm stratification (spring or summer) then cold stratification (winter) before germinating in spring.

Most of the advice for white pine germination is Soak 24 hours, warm stratify (damp seed at room temp) 60 days followed by cold stratification (damp seed in fridge) for 90 days then sow as usual in pots or trays.

Thanks for the info Kirky and Neil, got small seed cones on my one I'm letting mature with intent to harvest the seed, but no expectations from it at this stage. How long do the seed cones take to mature to opening? Been googling and can't find a straight answer. At the moment they are just small, around and inch long