AusBonsai

Jamie has asked to many times if I would post this, so Here goes. No pics sorry, a, I am not that clever yet (to post them) and b, I don't have any (I dont think)
I have used this method in Darwin, Sale (Vic), Perth and now have 2 trees under cultivation here - maybe I should take some pic's of those .
I recently told Jamie my method would be sure to generate discussion as it is fairly unbelievable, but pup has sort of confirmed (unknowingly) the system works in one of his posts under the "Do we under fertilise" thread. As he said in that post, it is possible to take cuttings/tubestock to 100mm trunked trees in 4 years and a lot less time as well. Only problem is that you really do need to work on the trees constantly.

So to it: Get hold of a large styrene box, and cut as many holes in the bottom as you can, without the bottom breaking. I usually get around 30 holes, each about 30x30mm, but you can make them larger if you like. Cover each hole with individual pieces of mesh, same as a Bonsai Pot.
Now put in a layer of 3 to 7 mm grit. I have used anything up to 10mm by the way. Only mentioned 3to 7 çause thats what everyone adds to their potting medium isn't it This layer should be around 50mm deep.
Now over the grit spread a layer of Pellitized Chook Poo (you know the one) To measure out this layer I use a 100mm flower pot and I put 4 of them in.
Now put 2 pots of Blood and Bone over the Chook Poo, followed by 2 pots of Pelletised slow release fertiliser (again you should know the one).
Lightly mix the three layers together, trying not to disturb the grit layer. (you need that it place to hold all the fertiliser in place, otherwise it will just run straight out the drainage holes when you water)
Now place a hard flat object (I used a lino square) on top of the fertilser. The piece I use is usually about 200mm square, but size isn't important - just make sure there is enough gap around the edges to let the roots get to the fertilizer. Next place a thin layer of grit over the lino, to cushion the roots and place your tree on top of this grit. Spread the roots radially around the trunk and then spread another layer of grit over the top of the roots, leaving about 50mm to the top of the box
Now, fill the rest of the box with Dynamic Lifter, oops pelletised Chook Poo, and water in well. I have found it is beneficial to water again a couple of times as the Chook poo takes up a lot of the water.
Place the tree out in full sun and water as often as necessary.
Now as we need to fertilise our trees regularly what you should do is refill the box with Chik Poo Weekly. Pup's mate scraps the Poo off every week and replaces it, but with this method there usually isnt anything left on the soil surface at the end of the week as it leaches down through the box. I also throw in a good serve of Blood and Bone at the start of each season and if feeling generous will throw in a couple of handfulls of the pelletised slow release as well then. The trees also get regular foliar feed with whatever I have in the watering can as well. In Darwin I grew Orchids, so the Bonsai got that fertiliser as well
You will find over time you get quite a bit of fertiliser under the box, which can be scooped out and used on the lawn or elsewhere as it will still be working.
I have used this method to grow some very large trunked Ficus Rubiginosa, Green Island, Little boy (although you do loose the small leaves) Willow Leaf fig, I have also used it to grow Hibiscus, although the flower size will frighten you . I was also growing an Azalea using this method, however it "passed away" following a watering mishap so not sure of the long term viability for this species.
Two things to watch if giving this a try. First, do not neglect watering and secondly keep the root pruning up. Roots will quickly escape the box and get into the ground and we need to keep all the roots in the box so the tree remains being force fed. Trees will need to be rootpruned yearly as the box will fill with course thick roots quickly and the tree will need to be top pruned daily once it gets going. Dont worry about leaf size, although I did defoliate mine 4 or five times a year - just so I could keep an eye on the trunk developement and direction.
As I said in the beginning, this will (hopefully) generate a bit of discussion, but it does work. You will also notice there is absolutely NO soil of any kind involved in this method of growing trees fast.

mate, this is a very interesting technique, i am amazed that there isnt any soil medium in it what so ever, it is definately worth doing for the results it produces. i think i am gonna have to buy a lot more dynamic lifter

i guess this completely answers the post i put up of under fertilising, have you ever had any trouble of the trees coming under reverse osmosis?

and do you use this method for just growing trunks, how does it go with creating taper do you just use the same techniques?

could it be used for trees that have bigger trunks and you want to develop more taper on them and create enough branching to work with??

i know a lot of questions at once and i have a whole heap more to come


muchly appreciated


jamie

jamie111 wrote:mate, this is a very interesting technique, i am amazed that there isnt any soil medium in it what so ever, it is definately worth doing for the results it produces. i think i am gonna have to buy a lot more dynamic lifter
i guess this completely answers the post i put up of under fertilising, have you ever had any trouble of the trees coming under reverse osmosis?
and do you use this method for just growing trunks, how does it go with creating taper do you just use the same techniques?
could it be used for trees that have bigger trunks and you want to develop more taper on them and create enough branching to work with??
i know a lot of questions at once and i have a whole heap more to come
muchly appreciated
jamie

Yes.

jamie111 wrote:have you ever had any trouble of the trees coming under reverse osmosis?

Nup

simple answser guess there is no need for stuffing about, tomorrow will be a bulk purchase of dynamic lifter, gravel and the materials necessary.

so to put this into perspective for me say i want to produce a sumo ficus (which is what i am trying to do right now in the development stage of a first chop) i can put the tree into this method, and say have some sort of movement in the tree quite quickly???

do the trees need foliage on them to make this method effective? as i have trunk chopped some ficus at the moment and they have no foliage, if i was to repot into this sort of method would it be signing a death sentence for them as they cannot use the food that they are surrounded by or would it be better to have foliage on the trees before potting into this sort of medium??

i am very keen to try this out, dunno how happy my wife will be with so much dynamic lifter smell going around the place but ohwell, she can get over it if i can produce trees like this in such a short time i will be happy as a bonsai in dynamic lifter


jamie

Jamie, I have planted lumps of wood this way and everything has worked out well. What I would suggest is you give the tree a good drench of Seasol at planting time as it will give it a bit of shock protection. By the time the roots start working again your little tree should be about ready to burst into leaf anyhow. Remember this doesn't happen overnight, usually takes till morning tea time at least
By the way, do you use Superthrive when potting? You should.

nope, dont use super thrive, havent been able to get my hands on it, i am still learning about the fertilising side of things and how much i have been under fertilising

i do use seasol though, which reminds me i should get some more.

do you have any problems with freshly root pruned trees??

sorry i know i am asking a million questions about this you have just gotten me very excited about it all if i could put a bigger cheeser smily face up i would


jamie

jamie111 wrote:nope, dont use super thrive, havent been able to get my hands on it, i am still learning about the fertilising side of things and how much i have been under fertilising

i do use seasol though, which reminds me i should get some more.

do you have any problems with freshly root pruned trees??

sorry i know i am asking a million questions about this you have just gotten me very excited about it all if i could put a bigger cheeser smily face up i would


jamie

No need for me to follow up eh!! just about all covered.

No need for me to follow up eh!! just about all covered.

i hope thats because i am asking so many bloody questions as you would put it mate
i still got more im just trying to wake up a bit after not much sleep the pas few days


jamie

Gday guys,
Very interesting method. One question...how do the trees go with internode length? with all of that super-fast growth, I would imagine the internode length could become quite long. Is that the reason they must be pruned every day?

That's a very interesting technique Graeme thanks for sharing. I have heard of similar but never to this degree. If the guys are true to form you should see lots of examples of members trying this out I thought I had plenty of Dynamic lifter for the year but looks like I need more
I am not sure what you mean here?

Now put 2 pots of Blood and Bone

What amount are we talking about ?

The internode length is an interesting question. I have read somewhere that once a branch or trunk gets over a certain thickness that internode length is no longer a concern as far as back budding goes? I have questioned this lately as I have a new swamp cypress that I cut back hard in spring. You can see where branches have developed in the past and I just can't imagine it pushing buds out on the trunk where a branch has never been. It didn't and I have now thread grafted one where I want and expect it will need another couple of grafts.

Since this technique seems about growing trunks then maybe the internode length is not important in certain species as I can imagine a fig pushing buds out on a fat trunk whether there was an internode there before or not once it got over a certain thickness.

very interesting indeed. you are building trunks so internodes are not important especially on trees that readily bud back. as things mature many hiddin advantatious buds are just waitn to be woken. i am gonna try this. thanks for sharing graeme.

Webos wrote:Gday guys,
Very interesting method. One question...how do the trees go with internode length? with all of that super-fast growth, I would imagine the internode length could become quite long. Is that the reason they must be pruned every day?

If your growing for trunk thickness then there should be no need to worry about inter node growth. You wouldn't use this method on refinement growth....

Sup fellas
this is great reading! knowledge and practical advice is great!
thanks
luke

anttal63 wrote:very interesting indeed. you are building trunks so internodes are not important especially on trees that readily bud back. as things mature many hiddin advantatious buds are just waitn to be woken. i am gonna try this. thanks for sharing graeme.

to right mate i ran out today and grabbed what i needed and away i went, here in this box as a trial is two figs. fig 1 on the left is a small willow leaf fig starter that i bought to take cuttings off, got my cuttings now i want the tree to grow grow grow trunk size is about 15mm across

fig 2 is a benji that i bought to try and get to a sumo level, i will have to make another chop on this one but all good, if all goes to plan i will have plenty of new shoots to choose from trunk size is 40mm across

here it is
chicken poo galore

It just doesn't seem right