AusBonsai

Hi all,

I am after some of your experiences to do with the defoliation of one plant; Zelkova serrata(please no "why would you bother" etc). I am after your personal experiences but no third hand information please.

1. Have you done it?
2. Have you ever plucked instead of cut?
3. Have you ever finger stripped instead of cut?
4. How often in a year have you done it?
5. How early in the year?
6. How late in the year?
7. General observations about success or failure and why.
8. Anything else pertinent.

Your observations in this matter are greatly appreciated. I will try to take into account where you live of course but if your climate or conditions are unique please indicate how.

Grant Bowie
NBPCA

Hi Grant.

When i was working in Japan I spent a whole day defoliating a large broom Zelkova.

I started, cutting each leaf with scissors much like you would a trident or fig. After an hour or so of this Oyakata (the nursery owner) walked past and corrected my method. He basically tore leaves off by the handful small twigs and all! I spent the rest of the day doing this with much less vigor trying to save as many small twigs as possible.

I stripped only the outer 1/2 and left the weak inner shoots un-touched.

After defoliating we put around 15-20 fertilizer cakes on the surface and placed back out in full sun.

Things to bare in mind....

- The tree in question was at around the 80% finished stage so you might proceed more carefully with a perfect finished tree.

- The tree jumped back with signs of growth within a week and was covered in new buds in two.

- The tree had been on the standard heavy feeding program for early spring prior to the work.

- The tree was around 75-80cm high with a 15-20cm trunk.

After 3 or 4 weeks it was clear why saving small twigs was not really an issue. The tree had exploded in fine twiggy growth all over!

Hope that helps.

Thanks,

That is certainly what I am after. First hand experiences.

A Zelkova I defoliated last Wednesday is already pushing out new growth as of yesterday, just 6 days, so that sounds comparable and about right. An old tree in good health etc.

Did you ask whether they do it multiple times per year?

Grant

Gday Jow,
Was the trunk 15 - 20cm tall before branches started splitting off or was it 15-20cm wide at the base?

I defoliated a mature tree 6 weeks ago by cutting with scissors and leaving the petiole on. the tree is back with twice as much foliage and much smaller. The only suggestion would be to ease up on its watering and let it recoup in a protected and shady place.

My Zelcova test trees in my soil test thread, aftery they dried by accident the leaves all dried and shrivelled.
I cut them all off with scissors, and within couple of weeks they had shot out everywhere

ken

Thanks everyone for the info so far.

Anyone defoliated more than once in a season?

Grant

Webos wrote:Gday Jow,
Was the trunk 15 - 20cm tall before branches started splitting off or was it 15-20cm wide at the base?

Webos, it was 15-20cm trunk width.

Grant, I cant see why you couldn't defoliate twice if the tree was healthy and growing strongly. I didn't personally do it twice in Japan though; all i did after its new leaves had come out was remove say 5-10% of the leaves every week or so, mainly taking the largest outer leaves and again leaving inner leaves and shoots.

I have only just started hard pruning my two large zelkova's due to them being collected just over a year ago now.
I was going to say what Jow has already written, but I dont need too. The only thing I can add, it do not strip back if you have repotted that year.

Grant,
I've repeatedly defoliated a large zelkova multiple times (4 or 5) for a couple of years now. The tree's in development so I allow the shoots to grow long (20 to 25 nodes) then prune and defoiate. I pluck, as cutting with shears is so time consuming and the loss of a few twigs isn't a big deal. With practice you can pluck without losing twigs, if you secure the branch in your other hand. The twigs regenerate at a rapid rate as strong buds emerge almost instantly.
With maples I cease defoliating at the end of January. Because zelkovas are so vigorous in the autumn I still defoliate in March. Generous feeding and watering are neccessary. I hope this helps.
Video of this will appear on a WorldOfBonsai episode in 2010.
Cheers
Lindsay

One problem though with shears, is the constant whorl budding. Its hard to keep multiple branching down that causes joint swelling, wouldnt the shearing make it worse, adding to the work needed to be done?

Asus101 wrote:One problem though with shears, is the constant whorl budding. Its hard to keep multiple branching down that causes joint swelling, wouldnt the shearing make it worse, adding to the work needed to be done?

I think you have mis understood what Lindsay is saying. He cuts with shears, not just shears the foliage. Hence no whorling effect although it does naturally whorl at branching points on older wood so you just keep on top of it and rub out excess buds.

Thanks everyone for your first hand observations. I am sure it is of benefit to everyone.

More experiences welcome.

Overhaul of an almost 60 year old Zelkova group is mostly complete now. It has bounced back so quickly and I was considering a second defoliation this year but I will see how it is in about 3 to 4 weeks and make up my mind. I defoliated a demo tree in May one year( not expecting and not wanting any new growth till spring) and it behaved as expected. They are a great subject.

Grant Bowie
NBPCA

Jow wrote:

Webos wrote:Gday Jow,
Was the trunk 15 - 20cm tall before branches started splitting off or was it 15-20cm wide at the base?

Webos, it was 15-20cm trunk width.

Grant, I cant see why you couldn't defoliate twice if the tree was healthy and growing strongly. I didn't personally do it twice in Japan though; all i did after its new leaves had come out was remove say 5-10% of the leaves every week or so, mainly taking the largest outer leaves and again leaving inner leaves and shoots.

I have leaf plucked once years ago in Autumn as part of a demo with Hiro Saito and the tree performed well. It also was only rough nursery stock.

I have never defoliated Zelkova more than once a season but also thought they would take multiple defoliation.

Thanks for your help.

Grant

NBPCA wrote:

Asus101 wrote:One problem though with shears, is the constant whorl budding. Its hard to keep multiple branching down that causes joint swelling, wouldnt the shearing make it worse, adding to the work needed to be done?

I think you have mis understood what Lindsay is saying. He cuts with shears, not just shears the foliage. Hence no whorling effect although it does naturally whorl at branching points on older wood so you just keep on top of it and rub out excess buds.

Thats what I meant, rubbing out that many new buds in wrong places. Once the tree is in refinement stage, time taken is not time wasted.

Hi all,

This group of Zelkova is not currently on display but will in the future when it has ramified more and all the wire is off. I thought this forum would appreciate the work in progress. We are reinforcing the original design which is very original in the artistic meaning.

The trees are now absolutely bursting in new growth all over and we have commenced to rub off many buds and will be trimming within a day or two.

Enjoy.