AusBonsai

Hi everyone,

I have been growing and training a Scots Pine from nursery stock for a few years now and I thought it was just about ready and moved it in August from a largish pot into a smaller pot. I did a fairly hard root prune and potted into my normal mix with all my usual methods.
Two months later is was actively growing and extending growth but dropping its older needles. No problem I thought. I treated with Fongarid.
One month later the smallest, top most branch started dying and I thought I have to do something or I would have a very sick or dead tree.
I pulled it out of the new pot and inspected the roots. What roots! There was nothing at all obviously alive. The root system pulled away in my hands and I kept teasing and looking for live roots. Nothing!I went as far as I could but then gave up looking. I thought it was a complete gonner and of no use but tried an emergency repot. (about 20th November)
I put it into a mix of coarse 2 or 3 mm quartz gravel from Ted Poynton and Zeolite. 2/3rds to 1/3rd.
No fertilizer, drenched with Fongarid then Seasol. Kept in shade house.
No further dying back over the next 6 weeks and then finally the existing buds have shown a slightly better color and plumped up slightly. Existing needles look fine. I think it will survive but won't bank on it.

WHEW

Grant,

Correct me if im wrong but isnt August a bit late to root prune, i normally d my pines round June.

Grant

G,day Grant what a coincidence, I was reading whilst having Breakfast after our walk. Bonsai Today number 9 page 52.

A story by a Japanese enthusiast K. Onishi he had a similar problem with a JBP he brought it out too soon and it got Frost burned he thought it was a goner.

He re potted as you have done, but he pruned all the roots till he found live tissue. Then put it in the greenhouse for high humidity where the soil would be warmed by the Sun. When the pot got warm he sprayed the needle with cold water.He went on to say although this may sound strange, it worked much like artificial respiration,
forcing the tree to breath.
The tree survived and he hopes it will still be shown at Kokufu one day.
There was quite a bit more to the article,which I am not willing to type out, but it was an interesting read.

Cheers Pup

Espresso wrote:Grant,

Correct me if im wrong but isnt August a bit late to root prune, i normally d my pines round June.

Grant

I would not consider it too late in Canberra. I put the problems down to me initially not leaving enough roots and then we had a very long, cold, wet spring. Soil stayed too wet without adequate roots to start pumping. Mid July and early August we could get down to minus 6 degrees.

In Sydney June/July would be perfect for repotting. I used to mainly pot then or in autumn when I lived there.

Grant

Pup wrote:G,day Grant what a coincidence, I was reading whilst having Breakfast after our walk. Bonsai Today number 9 page 52.

A story by a Japanese enthusiast K. Onishi he had a similar problem with a JBP he brought it out too soon and it got Frost burned he thought it was a goner.

He re potted as you have done, but he pruned all the roots till he found live tissue. Then put it in the greenhouse for high humidity where the soil would be warmed by the Sun. When the pot got warm he sprayed the needle with cold water.He went on to say although this may sound strange, it worked much like artificial respiration,
forcing the tree to breath.
The tree survived and he hopes it will still be shown at Kokufu one day.
There was quite a bit more to the article,which I am not willing to type out, but it was an interesting read.

Cheers Pup

Yes I read that years ago and it was quite interesting. I am no longer home much and don't have a glass house so once I re- repotted the tree it was mostly on it's own.

Trees are tough aren't they.

Grant

Grant

Bloody pines are too fussy, I've killed heaps of them over the years, just do olives instead they'll take anything, great for the lazy bonsaist like me, I can hear my olives right now banging on the back door pleading with me to go out there and water them but its 42 degrees and I aint going out in that!

ozzy wrote:Bloody pines are too fussy, I've killed heaps of them over the years, just do olives instead they'll take anything, great for the lazy bonsaist like me, I can hear my olives right now banging on the back door pleading with me to go out there and water them but its 42 degrees and I aint going out in that!

Most pines are fine but it takes time to learn a new environment and a new pine.

I never grew Scots pine in Sydney but found Black pine to be as tough as nails.Haven't killed one for years.

In fact in 40 years I have only lost two major trees. One due to a dry out when my trees were being boarded(about 23 years ago) and one that I pushed too hard too quick; coincidentally a Scots pine, about 5 years ago.

As long as you learn as you go it is all worthwhile.

But yes Olives are great.

Grant

I did have a nice collection of pines once, all radiatas that I had collected in Mt Crawford forest, then we had a heat wave and each and every one of them keeled over, I guess that was my fault though, I did water them well but I think they had too much afternoon sun that may have cooked the roots, anyway last year I collected a few more and they've only been getting morning sun and afternoon shade and seem to be doing OK, the thing with a pine is they don't die straight away, they linger for weeks and months giving you false hope, thats why you can cut them off at the base and plonk them in your lounge room for Christmas, they're as good as dead when they're cut but stay green for weeks afterwards, like conifers.

South australia certainly is a tough climate for man, beast and trees.

You have found trees that work in your climate so go with them.

Incidentally pinus halepensis replaces pinus radiata in hot , dry areas of NSW. Maybe you could try them instead in your climate,

Grant

Go on, be nice to ya olives and give them a water, weather is only getting worse for the next few days. Mine have had two waters today.

Grant Bowie wrote:South australia certainly is a tough climate for man, beast and trees.

You have found trees that work in your climate so go with them.

Incidentally pinus halepensis replaces pinus radiata in hot , dry areas of NSW. Maybe you could try them instead in your climate,

Grant

they do thrive in the heat.

good to hear its coming back grant; its interesting that you repotted in august. ive been taught mugos, scotts and white always later than earlier. vance wood over in the states swears by repotting these three in summer. i did the mugos last year middle december and had great results on 3 of them. i will do my scotts and white in the next month or so. vance prunes top and bottom, wires and repots his in summer. sais they dont miss a beat. i tend to leave the spring growth on and no styling and the mugos didnt miss a beat. i will again use this method with scott and white.

I did my Dwarf scotts pine in spring as the candles started to extend and lost it this year. Although I thought it would have been alright I guessed that I worked the roots too hard. Maybe I did it at the wrong time?

Bretts wrote:I did my Dwarf scotts pine in spring as the candles started to extend and lost it this year. Although I thought it would have been alright I guessed that I worked the roots too hard. Maybe I did it at the wrong time?

That sounds too late.

I definately would not repot a pine as the candles elongate. If for some reason you had to I would try trimming the candles off first and then repot.

Grant

Hi ya Grant, i certainly hope it pulls through for you. I would love to see a photo of the survivor if it pulls through. I repot mine in july/ august with no probs and i have also repotted in march with no problems. Melbourne weather is like that.