AusBonsai

These gums had been neglected in a nursery and the top of the trees had died off. I picked out as many as I could that had back budded on the trunk. When I got home I removed all the sprouts from the lignotubers and left them to grow.
I thought it best to just watch them for a year or two so I could start to understand the growth pattern of Gums. This forum is giving me the confidence to step up the progress of this project some what. Out of this lot I hope to end up with a large forrest and a few single trees of various styles. I am not concerned how big the forrest is (as in size of trees) because my ultimate plan is to one day(when I get to Pups age ) donate it to the NBPCA.
I am unsure what this species is but there seems to be the most of these and they look the most suitable for the forest. As you can see this will not be an easy task. The base of these trees are going to need alot of work. I am wondering wich is the best way to get away from the bulging lignotuber.
How long will they take to grow out is there any way I can sepeed it up. looking optimisticly some of this could be intresting under there but I think the truth will be just alot of trouble The link on Mallee Eucalypts suggests that the lignotuber can be cut of but can result in death or the lignotuber growing back? Is ground layer a possibility on these? After reading this link from Fly http://asgap.org.au/APOL2007/feb07-1.html It seems if I am quick I can sneak in some major styling pruning and sought out some leaders for the forrest trees and informal upright form. Or should I just let them grow strong to envelope those lignotubers. I remember a couple of these are yours if you still want Fly This one had no growth above the lignotuber but I liked the leaf. I think I will try a clump like malle of some type with it. This is were they have been growing,there are still a few there the largest malle style one has grown roots into the ground.

With so much advice from members how could I go wrong I tried to pick a leader at about so height that pointed in the right direction and removed most other branches for now.
I took some pictures of gums on a trip to Orange during the week and I am using this tree for insperation for the two largest trees. You might be able to see them middle front. I took the other trees that will not be in the forrest somewhat shorter I think the main problem in the near future will be to ensure that no back budding dominates the growth.

Looks like an interesting project Soltan. Keep posting the photo's, all the photo's on the forum give me ideas and courage to try. Thanks.

soltan wrote:As you can see this will not be an easy task. The base of these trees are going to need alot of work.
...
I am wondering wich is the best way to get away from the bulging lignotuber.
How long will they take to grow out is there any way I can sepeed it up.
...
looking optimisticly some of this could be intresting under there but I think the truth will be just alot of trouble
...
Is ground layer a possibility on these?

Gday Brettles!

Sorry it's taken a while for me to get in and comment, but I've had some IT issues of late and am just getting back on my virtual feet...

Ahhh, the lignotuber: the bane of Euc Bonsaiists world wide... It can be a great feature, providing fat, gnarly basal flare, but more often than not an exposed lignotuber is a troublesome and ugly bulge. I imagine that one could write an entire Master's thesis on lignotubers and still not be able to fully explain their function and behaviour. That said, I'll attempt to convey what I have learned about them in my few years of fiddling with Eucs.

Let's begin with what it says in the Oz Native Bonsai Bible:

Dorothy & Vita Koreshoff * wrote: Some Eucalypts, along with a few other species, produce a swelling starting either under of above the soil around the base of the trunk, called a lignotuber. This is made up of undifferentiated cells, which, depending on the conditions surrounding a particular part of the tuber, have the ability to either produce branches or roots. One of the important factors ensuring successful rootpruning is, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should the roots, trunk or lignotuber be planted deeper than the original level of the soil, otherwise the tree will surely die. There is no danger from exposing MORE of the tuber or root.

* Bonsai with Australian Native Plants, p.49-50

Taken at face value, the Koreshoffs' statement would have it that there is little or nothing you can do to correct the reverse taper displayed in many of your Eucs. However - as is so often the case in Bonsai literature - the Koreshoffs do not make mention of the age and type of tree that this rule is based on. It is my assumption that they are talking about old, established trees collected from the wild, and not young nursery grown trees like yours. I believe that there is a more-or-less direct correlation between the age of the tree and the sensitivity of the lignotuber to soil depth. It is my experience that younger Eucs can be planted deeper than the original level without harm, and that by doing so they can be made to produce roots higher on the lignotuber, or even above it.

Without seeing each tree first-hand, my first course of action would be to attempt to hide the problem, by raising the soil level in the pots to just above the fattest part of the lignotubers. (It is clear that most of the pots have lost a good amount of soil depth due to surface erosion and soil compaction, so it is really debatable exactly what the 'original' soil level actually is: it could easily have been another 30-50mm higher in comparison to the trunk/tuber.)
Ground layering could be a good option, but I my experience with layering Eucs is confined to layering high on the trunk. Ideally, you would attempt a ground layer just above the lignotuber, so that the roots you achieve would cascade down over the tuber, giving you instant taper. Even better than attempting a layer above the lignotuber would be to layer at the fattest part of the tuber using the skirt layer technique so that the initial bulge of the lignotuber might blend smoothly into a nice, radial root spread. However, I am uncertain how a Euc would respond to injury so close to the lignotuber. I'll try to get my hands on some similar material and try some experiments.

In the meantime, I'll be watching this post for your progress, especially with those couple of clumps. Bear in mind that it is crucial to get trunk movement happening as early as possible when training Eucs.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Fly.

Hey y'all, i've got a few young eucs too which have this bump in the bottom as well. As far as what i'm doing, i'm trying to plant them lower in the ground in the hope that roots start growing out of these spots.

A nice bonsai place that I visit near me has several advanced eucs and on some of his ancient ones the bumps are there, growing up and bulging. Hard to say if it is attractive or not, it must be just the nature of bonsai ing these. Seems nebari are not really an option for some gums.

Not sure if they can be gotton rid of or not completely, might be just a matter of tayloring the tree to suit these bumps....

G'day,

Lignotubers normally grow on eucalypts which come from dry areas (most of Australia). If left to grow to their natural height they are usually 'hidden' by the adult trunk however this is unlikely to happen in bonsais! Why not use them as a feature? Also most euc's don't naturally grow with a radial spread of roots like maples. They usually grow straight down so as to cope with the erratic rainfall which most parts of Australia experience. If a natural looking tree is your aim then radial roots isn't the way to go.

Thanks Kindly for the imput Fly. I have been considering what you have suggested while looking at the trees. At first I was very keen to try all types of layers on these to see what worked but I have decided on a plan less drastic for now. While looking at the bases it seems aparent that the drastic taper above the ligno tuber can be more of an issue

I was keen to try a range of layers on these guys to see what would happen. But I have decided to go less drastic for now. On many it is the drastic taper above the lignotuber that is most upseting. In any event I think that the extra taper added by the skirt layer would not be benificial. I think I will take a baby step and try a couple of ground layers. One by ringbarking and one by applying wire under the lignotuber.
Maybe I should have cut them lower to improve movment but I was aiming at a large tree to rid them of the ligno tuber in time. Possibly I will have to go lower in the future
Any objections to trying these groundlayers this time of season?

I will keep you posted.

Marc in general I can not see these lignotubers fitting into any believable forrest compilation so I will persist until I have pleasing bases. I am a stickler for a good root base. That said I have not had these guys out of the soil yet due to inexperience with natives so I will pick the most obvious flaws to experiment with until I am confident to repot.

Hey Edward as stated It is possible that I can find something intresting under the soil but my worst fear is that it will just be ugly. I can't agree that having a nice radial spread of roots like "maples" [gums] will look unatural. Although it does seem to be less frequent in Gums until they are of a great age I often see gums with exposed root flare in many areas.
I don't think I would be happy without it Thanks Kindly for the imput though as It did make me look around at lots of gum bases

Hi Bretts,

I just love digging through the archives here so much to learn, and I was really keen to find out what happened to these ones? Im thinking of doing some gums (have been trying to get some from seed growing as we speak) and the more I can find on them the better

Cheers mate,
Isty.