AusBonsai

hi guys

after doing a few virts of forests and landscapes for alpine i have decided to try my hand at one when i get my slab, i am keen to get into them and have basic ideas, but never tried them, i would prefer to get some trees that are slightly more developed as main feature trees, then some small seedling/saplings for the smaller groups and distant forests. no i am not sure at what i want to use yet species wise, i was thinking either fig or celtis. i would go clero but i dont have enough small ones to do what i want, i dont know how they go staying small and thin either, i assume they would be fine.

i think a major part of landscapes and forests is keeping them dynamic and interesting without looking like a group of trees just plonked in a pot. i beleive having a flat setting can work quite well but i think the trees really have to give that feeling of walking through that forest if dead straight trunks are used, i would like to see landscapes more with rises and falls etc. i think it woud add more depth of field and more interest and feeling. what are your thoughts?
while i am at it i alos think pot choices can be quite crucial, a nice slab or tray will make the setting while to deep a pot i would think would spoil a good setting, i think a more freeform slab or tray would be the go for most of them but i could also see a nice shallow formal type pot working for a neat ramrod straight trunk forest?
so if you want to put some ideas in and get things going that would be great, if you have some pics of your own landscapes or forests or have pics of someone you know thet would be even better.

please no pics from google searches, i have gone through a lot of them


jamie

Hey jamie
my opinion on forests and landscapes is that I love them, I think there a really natural and exciting way of doing bonsai rather then just one tree in a pot. Forest or lanscape settings like you say do need a shallow pot and not a deep one I think because of there size and amount of trees a full deep po would give the planting too much of a bulky appearence and throw it off.
If you where going to use figs in a forest planting a really good thing to consider is the fact that figs grow fast and alot as you would know. So you need to put this into thought when you do a forest of figs. In a forest you generally have he larger trees in the centre of the trees, not in the centre of the pot though, so this tree is going to grow stronger as it would have the Mostar amount of room for it's roots to spread so if you have the trees that are alotnsmaller as in the ones that you are keeping small in your forest, need to be kept around the edges of your pot. Having be smaller trees on the outside is a general rule of forests anyway but the smaller figs will need to be on the edge they have less room to grow there roots so that they don't thicken too quick an take over the larger trees. If you whereto have smaller trees amongst the thicker ones you would probably over a short amount of time realize that the small figs arnt small anymore but could be as thick or thicker as the main trees. Hope this helps in any way.

Hugh

Jamie look up Saikei there you will see plenty of what you are talking about.

Toshio Kawamoto has a good book about it so does Peter Adams ..

Cheers Pup

Sorry mate just read though you post again soI will post some.

thanks for your interest hugh

i get what your trying to say about figs being fast growers i think you have it a little wrong though, i agree a larger dominant tree should be the main attraction to the tree, but i think there should be medioum sized trees around it then smaller again, in a forest type setting, i am thinking more so for my setting of a landscape with some small groupings maybe 3-5 groupings with 3-5 trees in each one grouping being a main group with larger trees with one dominant tree, then smaller groups going to the rear of the setting to instill distance and depth. if that makes sense, i think you will find that figs will definately grow but in a pot with not much space for roots it can be drastically reduced.

as for forest settings i see them differently to landscapes, i beleive they should have more than 11 trees (i think thats right) to start with but the way i see them is of some nice straight trunk like a pine forest having a lrager main feature tree in the middle of the group, offset of centre like you said, with trees gradually going down in size as it goes out. i beleive plantings of less than 11 is consider a grouping? not sure on the name or if the numbers are correct, it might be 17 for both, 17 or more is forest, 17 or less is a grouping?? not sure, if someone could correct me that would be great.

anyway back to other ideas on pots i agree that shallow pots are the go, i am thinking outside the sqaure here what if we were to put together a forest of rather large porpotions, im talking with trees up to a metre tal, on a slab of say 4-5 metres long and 2 metres wide? i would dare say this would require depth in the slab or build up just for the sheer size and number of trees going into it, i know it is an extreme as such but wouldnt it look impressive
i have thought about something like that for a while for when i get a property of my own and build a house i want something like that as a feature in my garden

so has anyone got groups, forests or settings? i would love to see them come on people i know it isnt a common thing but surely there must be a few, i know alpine has some


jamie


ps. thanks pup i thought you might have some interesting ones too and yea i have looked up a lot of what google will find i want to see some home grown ones please

There are four that I know of in the National Collection from WA A beech group on a slab a Japanese Maple group in a shallow pot a Trident Maple group in a pot and a Melaleuca rhaphiophylla group on a man made slab.
The size you want is up to you. What ever you can manage,I have to get help for a couple of mine at re potting time.
Once you get over Nine 9 I think, it is called Yose ue not sure of the exact number though.

Saikei the Japanese penjing are small landscapes designed to look nice while you grow your trees on. Well that was the original idea by Kawamoto.
They are not excepted as Bonsai, by the Nippon Bonsai Association.

Cheers Pup

thanks pup, saikei is what i am after then not so much where there are intergrated species i will be keeping the species all the same, thanks for the correct term of yose ue.

one of my biggest challenges in creating the setting will be finding the correct rocks, i do intend on doing one with native species i just have to figure out how i will go with it.
i havent seen our national collection i would love to, i was hopnig it would be up on the website but i guess they dont have many on there as i should make the pilgrimage one day

i am looking at doing a smaller size setting though the idea i wrote above is for when i have a house and garden of my own, it is interesting that the nippon bonsai society do not include saikei as bonsai but i guess they know there stuff.

would love to see some of your smaller ones when ya get a chance though pup, also the bigguns aswell

jamie

Here's one Jamie it is Mrs pup's it is a group of Chamaecyparis obtusa flabelliformis nana ( not sure I have spelt flaber right ) with some Chinese limestone rock.

Cannot remember how many trees at the moment as I have added some cuttings since the original planting will try for a better picture but not tomorrow it is our anniversary.
I am taking the little lady ( loose term ) to lunch of her choice.

Cheers Pup

our eldest is 49 our youngest is 39 so its a long time. You get less for murder

Below the pictures of work done by a fellow forum.
Diego Santana Wrote:
Friends can not find work in this forum so I'm posting again to update ok ....
This is the beginning of the work, is to do several layers of concrete, each layer contains 1 color ..
I use 1 part cement to 1 sand ..
I use xadrez: yellow, green, brown, black ..
I'm doing the layers one at a time, then you have the stones mounted the desired height, let the cement dry for 20 minutes and begin to carve the design of the stones, I make the stones before then that i do is dry the floor .. ......

Note that the stone is almost dry ...


After 2 days in the shade not to crack, it goes to the sun to dry completely to start the beginning of the finish, which consists of rubbing a wire brush and strong, to more naturally to all .....

Ja with seedlings placed .....
I remember also that has a relief on the edges and drainage holes in the side structure to maintain the substrate more easily ...



This month I did a little refinement in the seedlings, I leave the plants and low, like that typical of africa ...

It is also clear show the structure as it is its best attraction .....


I hope you like the work ....
DIEGO SANTANA.
http://bonsaistudio.forumvila.com/viewt ... =12&t=4467


Shalom Luciano.

XADREZ, mentioned above is a pigment for cement.
Made from Iron Oxide.
Shalom Luciano.

Hi Jamie i have a couple of trainers "Long &short term "and currently setting up a few more Not up to the stage of Mrs Pups--- VERY NICE --- but it may give the more knowledgable a chance to put a Rocket under me and do some serious styling .Cheers

Hi Luciano that landscape work is so natural , one very talented individual.Thanks for more inspiration .Cheers Alpineart

Atlas cedar originally from a 21 tree forest group, on average 1 tree per year has died .These were seed grown from 1995-97 Neglected and allowed to grow on some have been replaced with mich younger starters . Cut loose .Cheers Alpineart

These elms were collected last winter and had all the branches removed . No formal training .Cheers

This Trident Maple was collected along with 90 others off the council The lower 2 branches had grown horizontal due to the fact they were tangled in long grass . The raft idea was an instant thought and i was placed into a poly box .Slip potted into this training tray 6-8 weeks ago and had a quick trim .Developing nicely, the rocks are actually holding the branches into the ground as the root development is continuing .Cheers Alpine

Hi Jamie,
You are 100% right about the rocks they really need to be special but also getting the mix of trees right by that I mean varying heights thickness etc. And one you have the ingredients then the really hard part starts.
Craig