AusBonsai

Hi everyone,
Well I am in need of some real help here I have had this Atlantic cedar now for a few years and I just dont know what to do with it now. I was going for a formal upright but just cant seem to get it to fill in where i want the branching.
I am maybe thinking it would be better of as a literati but I know how difficult this style can be.

Any thought or advice would be great as I know there is real potential in this tree but I just need to find it.

id literati it for sure

Yes, i see your problem. First and foremost they do not backbub easily on the trunk. I would be tempted to cut it off at the bar branching halfway up and start your tree there. If you want two trees out of it aerial layer the top off for two trees to work with. I really do not think you can make it a worthwhile tree in its current guise.

I see a great literati

I have been trying to get some backbudding on this for a few years but to no avail, there is a couple of buds in the gap halfway up but they will take another few years to develop I think.

I might have to have a p[lay with some virtual to see what a literati could look like.

like you said perhaps an air layer to make two smaller trees.

heres a little virt many more options than this great little tree by reducing the branches it will force the energy to these few branches and should fill out alot easier
note im not sure about the time to reduce cedars as in qld i dont bother with them may be ask a southerner for a guide

Archie, I think the best way to treat this one is to reduce the tree down to the third row of branches, then bring one of these branches up to form a new apex. This way you will get some movement in the trunk as the tree develops and the lower section of the trunk will be more visually pleasing. Try and airlayer the top section, but due to the slow growth of these trees it may take a while, and then it may not work anyway. If you do reduce the top, wait until spring when the tree is growing strongly and then reduce the lateral branches to try and get ramification starting from the point of growth closest to the trunk. Leave it in the training pot to encourage stronger growth.

John T

That is a good idea on the virt Dayne but i think, without heavy duty work on the trunk it will be nearly impossible to create that trunk from this tree. It is too established. those sort of trunks come from a lot of preplanning when the trunk is still supple enough to put into those sorts of movement.

Yeah there is a few options, I do like the virtual that was done but like you said the tree may be too established. Here is my virt so far, without any trunk bending just yet might have a coffee before I do any more virtualing on photoshop. perhaps something like this If i can bend the trunk

push a bit of y12 reo bar to the bottom of the pot wrap the trunk and it should move a bit even do a little shari work it will soften up iv done bigger bends but not on cedar so could be wrong but have bent junipers 40mm thick

that virt is spot on archie, if you can get that without killing the tree you will be on a champion!

nice virt too!

Thanks Jamie,
And Dayne I was thinking of perhaps using some reo just like in Leongs video 'A pine around the bend'.

What should I wrap the trunk in though I dont have any rubber bike tyres to use and I dont have any raffia left over so I may have to go and buy something to use.

Suggestions.

I think I am going to attempt the trunk bending and I think the trunk will have to be wrapped. When you say some Shari work on the trunk what do you mean exactly where would you do this on a cedar.

Cheers for the input

Archie

mate to wrap it duck into bunings and grab some black cotton bandage it is used to tie trees to stakes about 75mm wide works a treet or use some material thats strong like denim and wrap that around as for shari work were you want a bend remove some bark right down to the bare timber even drill some tine hole into it this will make it easier to bend and will look good when finished id use some 5mm wire in two strands from top to bottom and cable tie the tree to the bar then bend away from the bar then bring back in and tie to the bar if that makes sense alpine art just did somthing similar it will bend but not sure a cedar will like it check first with a cedar veteran first.

hi Archie, What have you been feeding it, it looks kind of hungry. The other thing is that these are very much cool climate trees and can react badly to hot afternoon sun. you have the makings of a lovely formal tree there which is quite hard to find. you will find if you can get it moving and the branching fills in the spaces will be less obvious. i wouldn,t start cutting it up yet thats not going to improve the health of your tree which seems to me to be the main problem. Cedars are very slow growing trees so you have to be patient with them.
Craig

Hi Archie , Atlas Cedars will take quite a bit of abuse /neglact "BUT" they dont like wet feet . Unless your mix is absolutely free draining they turn yellow like yours is doing .Personally i would remove it from that plastic pot, the roots can't breath and the pot absorbs incredible amounts of heat and turns it into a slow cooker .

Alternatively drill 10mm holes all the way around the pot to allow air circulation and cover the pot with straw to keep the heat at bay .Look out for worms and curl grubs they love covered pots.Replace the potting mix with 8mm minus red scoria and old aged pine bark 8m minus at a ratio of 60% scoria 40% bark or something similar that is free draining .I have used pine bark mulch 10mm minus it works just as well and produces the mychiorzea.

Mychriozea is essentual for Atlas cedars , they will survive for a year or 2 without it then die a slow death.Old pine bark produces mychriozea fairly quick ,new bark from a nursery doesn't .Dont root prune or remove the branches for now just get it in a very open mix preferably in the ground ,in a box rather than plastic .

Remove that wiring you have there ,cut it off or you can mark the bark by trying to remove it. I use hook and hold wiring on Atlas Cedars for that very reason as the bark marks easily and it is permanent .I have numerous cedars with less branching than yours and in time it will fill out then rage .Will post a pic of some shockers that were collected , now there powering on slow and steady .Cheers