AusBonsai

James thread got a bit hijacked by this topic and I thought maybe its worth its own thread.
I was surprised to see some experienced growers saying they don't tie in their trees. For me this is standard practice, I don't even think about it, its just something which happens when I repot.
For me repotting means changing as much potting mix as I can, old stale potting mix is not conducive to the production of fibrous roots so its imperative that it gets replaced with fresh mix. During this process the weight of the root system is drastically reduced. the trees if not tied in would be extremely unstable. I could count on 1 hand the trees I don't tie in and 3 of them are root over rock.
If you only remove 1 third of the root system then I can imagine the trees would be pretty stable, but then you only have one third of the pot for the tree to grow new roots in, and to me that is a pretty unsatisfactory situation. I want as much of the pot to be filled with fresh feeding roots as possible.

It was Shinichi Nakajima who taught me how to tie the trees in properly with strong wire and a pair of pliers to lift the wire and twist it down tightly so there is absolutely no movement at all. I have since followed his good advice and can relax on windy days knowing my trees are very snug in their pots.
Craig

I tie my trees down with natural twine, by the time the roots are grown, the twine has degraded. years ago i lost a couple of roots due to the cheesecutter effect of tight wire.

buddaboy

craigw60 wrote:James thread got a bit hijacked by this topic and I thought maybe its worth its own thread.
I was surprised to see some experienced growers saying they don't tie in their trees. For me this is standard practice, I don't even think about it, its just something which happens when I repot.
For me repotting means changing as much potting mix as I can, old stale potting mix is not conducive to the production of fibrous roots so its imperative that it gets replaced with fresh mix. During this process the weight of the root system is drastically reduced. the trees if not tied in would be extremely unstable. I could count on 1 hand the trees I don't tie in and 3 of them are root over rock.
If you only remove 1 third of the root system then I can imagine the trees would be pretty stable, but then you only have one third of the pot for the tree to grow new roots in, and to me that is a pretty unsatisfactory situation. I want as much of the pot to be filled with fresh feeding roots as possible.

It was Shinichi Nakajima who taught me how to tie the trees in properly with strong wire and a pair of pliers to lift the wire and twist it down tightly so there is absolutely no movement at all. I have since followed his good advice and can relax on windy days knowing my trees are very snug in their pots.
Craig

I agree wholeheartedly, especially when using kanuma/akadama the mix stays so loose that trees fall down very easily, even in light winds and if a large bird decides to sit on it they're right over!
Do you have any pictures of the wiring technique that Nakajima san taught you?
Thanks Craig...

I use wire when I remember, other wise I use the late Ron Andersen's idea of ribbon straw and a mattress repair needle. very simple method and the ribbon straw streches as the roots grow. No it does not stretch to stop root movement. Just as the roots grow, it will not cut through like on Buddaboys.

Cheers Pup

Hi Craig,

I also tie down with wire and have never lost a tree.

One person came in with a Blaauws juniper that had died for no obvious reason. He had done everything correctly that I could think of but it was dead.

After much quizzing the only possibility was a jolt 4 or 5 weeks after the repot. That could snap new roots/infection/ root rot maybe?

As we both grow our trees in as much sun and wind as possible it is adviseable to tie them down.

Grant

Frankly, I couldn't be bothered and it amazes me that so many people can and do. In the standard line of repotting, especially a tree that has been properly root pruned before, I plonk it in the pot, adjust the position and fill in the soil. As Len Webber taught me so many years ago, once potted I gently move the trunk and if there is movement I work more on getting the soil around the roots, getting it in firmer and removing vacant pockets. That is for 95% of my trees. For a very severe root prune or a tree that will not be steady in the pot for the first year I do wire it in. Especially with slanting or windswept styles. Sometimes I don't tie in but brace with a well positioned rock for a couple of months until the roots stablilise the tree.

Even my cantilever Kunzea [The Escapee] does not get tied in because it develops roots very quickly and is firm in the pot. I've just this morning repotted a juniper as a windswept full cascade in a small pot and it never occurred to me to wire it in. As long as the cat doesn't rub her face against the tree it should be fine. When I try to gently move the trunk it doesn't and that's my sign that the tree is stable. I find that in most instances wiring a tree in a pot is unnecessarily pedantic.

Am I silly and do I treat my trees casually? No bloody way. The dramatic literati juniper 'Dragon Rising' that appears in the convention photos is not only wired in the pot with 4 wires but there are two chopsticks wedged across the top of the roots and lodged under the pot rim because this tree has very poor roots and the weight of the trunk and foliage make this very necessary. So it is horses for courses. If you want to, fine. I only do it when absolutely necessary for the health and security of the tree. Also, I make a practice of not moving a delicate tree for at least 6 weeks after repotting if I feel it is not firm and car travel is a no no.

Hi Neal, Theres not too much special that Shiniji showed me except that you grab the wire with pliers and lift and twist at the same time, he also explained the need to use a strong wire not too fine.

Hi Mel you must live in a very sheltered part of the world, if I didn't tie my trees down tight they would be blown out of their pots in the first wind. And you can rest assured the roots have been dealt with on some of them for many years.
Craig

I think a lot of it depends on which growing medium you use. If I pot a tree into soil (espeically if it is a larger normal type pot) I don't tie them in, but if I use diatomite in a bonsai-ish shallow pot I find I have to.
Not that I have years of experience, but this is what I have found.

Glenda

Here is the article I promised to link in the other thread
http://www.bonsaikc.com/repotting_established.htm
Looks good to me but I haven't tried this way yet!

I'm definitely with Mel on this one. Not all trees need tying in. Most trees develop very stable root bases with proper root pruning and time. Others need tying down as the roots are unstable. Feel free to tie everyting in if you want but I will continue to only tie in those that are unstable when potted up.

I totally agree with Graig and Grant. I think it's highly irresponsable not to ty your trees in after repotting. It's not only the wind that could blow them out of their pots (and I'm in the Dandenongs just like Graig) it could also be the kids, the dogs etc. that can knock them over. And I hate that to appen on a stinkin hot day. Why taking all that risk if it can easily prevented by wiring in your trees.

i always tie my trees in aswell even the smallest ones, i feel so much more secure with them tied in, after a certain amount of time and the trees are steady in there pots i find i do remove it some times, just by snipping the bit that is just below the soil line and pulling it out from underneath, being an avid user of diatomite i find this is a must, even small trees that have been heavily pruned are just as possible to be knocked/blown out as bigger ones.

i think it is a good practice to tie them in, especially as a beginner, learn the good habits first and you wont have to be bumbling around for the first few years losing trees like myself..