AusBonsai

Hi there crazy kids!!

I was just wondering, after using the Toothpick method to perform an air layer on my Shohin Chinese Elm (with great success I might add thatnks to Bodhiharma), I am now getting more ambitious. I have access to some rather large Olive trunks and wanted to do the same thing to accelerate and enhance the basal flare as I intend to do a straight cut at the base of the trunk. Question is, if I use the toothpick method on such a large trunk, at the very least, the roots that emerge will look small in scale with the stump for many years I would imagine.

So, ..... what's wrong with using some dowell with say a diameter of approx 1cm instead? The approach would be the same, (you know, add hormone powder to the tip of the dowell etc etc). Any reason why this would not work?

Thanks guys

John

Not sure if it will, sounds possible, but I sure hope you try!

I will definitely be trying it, that's for sure!!

Jester wrote:I will definitely be trying it, that's for sure!!

I would imagine it would come down to ratio's of thickness of dowel to thickness of trunk.
If a tiny plant has enough energy to cover a tooth pic, then you would be led to imagine a large tree should have the energy to cover a larger piece of material.

Worst case scenario you have some nice handles, to move the plant around with whilst re-potting.

as your name suggets entertainer, your experiment looks to be a very entertaining experience. enough e's? i was only thinking of this the other day. i'll be following.

You will find that the roots that emerge will be the same size as the toothpick ones, only difference will be that several roots will come from around the whole dowel, which may give a strange shaped nebari. Only way I believe to get roots in proportion will be to grow them out and then cut back and regrow the same way we do branches.

Jarrod wrote:You will find that the roots that emerge will be the same size as the toothpick ones, only difference will be that several roots will come from around the whole dowel, which may give a strange shaped nebari. Only way I believe to get roots in proportion will be to grow them out and then cut back and regrow the same way we do branches.

I agree 100%, you should aim for lots of small roots which will eventually fuse together. I expect a larger hole and a piece of dowell would result in a ring of small roots around the hole and the dowell might take years to disintegrate at which time you would have one thick root instead of a mass of fused fine roots.

Jester wrote:Hi there crazy kids!!

I was just wondering, after using the Toothpick method to perform an air layer on my Shohin Chinese Elm (with great success I might add thatnks to Bodhiharma), I am now getting more ambitious. I have access to some rather large Olive trunks and wanted to do the same thing to accelerate and enhance the basal flare as I intend to do a straight cut at the base of the trunk. Question is, if I use the toothpick method on such a large trunk, at the very least, the roots that emerge will look small in scale with the stump for many years I would imagine.

So, ..... what's wrong with using some dowell with say a diameter of approx 1cm instead? The approach would be the same, (you know, add hormone powder to the tip of the dowell etc etc). Any reason why this would not work?

Thanks guys

John

Jester if i understand you correctly here. the only thing you are making bigger is the hole. The root will still start and grow at the same rate???

Hi Antony, I'm not sure if you're asking me or telling me. My theory is that if I use thicker wood, the tree will require more energy force to push it out and therefore the root would come out thicker to begin with. Would you disagree?

anttal63 wrote:

Jester wrote:Hi there crazy kids!!

I was just wondering, after using the Toothpick method to perform an air layer on my Shohin Chinese Elm (with great success I might add thatnks to Bodhiharma), I am now getting more ambitious. I have access to some rather large Olive trunks and wanted to do the same thing to accelerate and enhance the basal flare as I intend to do a straight cut at the base of the trunk. Question is, if I use the toothpick method on such a large trunk, at the very least, the roots that emerge will look small in scale with the stump for many years I would imagine.

So, ..... what's wrong with using some dowell with say a diameter of approx 1cm instead? The approach would be the same, (you know, add hormone powder to the tip of the dowell etc etc). Any reason why this would not work?

Thanks guys

John

Jester if i understand you correctly here. the only thing you are making bigger is the hole. The root will still start and grow at the same rate???

I disagree jester, the tree will simply push roots out around the dowel, forming a ring of roots around the dowel.

What makes you say that Jarrod? I'm not saying your wrong but I would like to understand your reasoning behind this view.

John

Hi John,
I do not know if you saw my post a few days ago when I unearthed one I did last spring. You seem to have the idea that the new roots will encase the toothpick, I do not believe this is the case! New roots grow at points at the edge of the hole even with toothpicks some of the old holes I drilled have 4 or 5 roots coming from the edge of the holes.viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5496

hi john,

i must agree with jarrod on this, having a larger hole isnt going to make a root bigger, they have to be grown out and chopped back. i would use the tooth pick method on an olive stump and bury it in the ground for a few years checking every couple of years to make sure it is heading in the right direction.

if you check out http://www.dugzbonsai.com where he does the olive flat cut you will see how the roots develop on olives and how it would work out, firstly small roots but lots of them, then he chops the roots that arent necessary or coming out of the olive at the wrong points and then puts it back in the ground so the roots that were left can develop.

thinking out side the square is great john, the thing with a bigger piece of dowel will only give you roots from where the camibum is opened. which will/could possibly cause some od lumpy bits on the trunk.

jamie

Hi Gerard, mate I think there has been a misunderstanding. I do not think that the roots will encase the toothpick / dowell / whatever. This was Jarrod's view not mine. I have already used the toothpick method as per my original post with great sucess. My way of thinking is that if I try and use dowell on a large olive stump the result will be the same but on a larger scale. To me the principle of the method is the same as what I did on my Shohin Elm.

Gerard wrote:Hi John,
I do not know if you saw my post a few days ago when I unearthed one I did last spring. You seem to have the idea that the new roots will encase the toothpick, I do not believe this is the case! New roots grow at points at the edge of the hole even with toothpicks some of the old holes I drilled have 4 or 5 roots coming from the edge of the holes.viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5496

Could I then not modify the procedure to expose more of the cambium for each opening?

Jamie wrote:hi john,

i must agree with jarrod on this, having a larger hole isnt going to make a root bigger, they have to be grown out and chopped back. i would use the tooth pick method on an olive stump and bury it in the ground for a few years checking every couple of years to make sure it is heading in the right direction.

if you check out http://www.dugzbonsai.com where he does the olive flat cut you will see how the roots develop on olives and how it would work out, firstly small roots but lots of them, then he chops the roots that arent necessary or coming out of the olive at the wrong points and then puts it back in the ground so the roots that were left can develop.

thinking out side the square is great john, the thing with a bigger piece of dowel will only give you roots from where the camibum is opened. which will/could possibly cause some od lumpy bits on the trunk.

jamie