AusBonsai

Hi guys

recently i have been talking to a mate via PM about a few things, we have had a chat about a fair few things but one that came up was growing deciduous trees with delicate foliage like maples (any variety) up here in a tropical environment, as some may know i yearn to grow maples, which my attempts have been fatal to every tree i have tried with delicate leaves.
how this come up was with Mike growing tridents but constantly haveing to deal with leaf burn, which is more than likely caused by a couple of factors, the intense sun and drying winds. I have been told by a few that to grow trees like maple, horn beam etc. or the likes it isnt so much the sun, or the heat or the winds, but the humidity, if I can work out a way to beat the humidity maple growing would be possible. so this is a thought i have come up with and want a few other opinions on it. It may not be the easiest thing to do to grow a tree but if i could have just the one maple i would be happy.

the plan -

first of I have been thinking bout the sun and wind factor, my thoughts on to beat this is to make a "mini shade house" a frame with shade cloth that would be just big enough to house the tree, maybe say 30cm x 30cm x 30cm with a door for access or an opening to view the tree, the shade cloth would probably be somewhere around the 50% mark, allowing good light in to make the tree happy, but enough to stop the intense light off the delicate leaves.
this shade house frame will also stop most of the wind factor too, yet still allowing fresh air to circulate around the tree.

Now the big one, how do we overcome humidity, humidity is a percentage of moisture that is in the air that some deciduous trees cant stand, like T. maple of J. maple (for example, i know tridents are a little tougher).
So after pondering this for a fair while now i thought what if i could make a dehumidifier that will work for the small enclosed area of the shade frame. there are a fair few different ways to make simple dehumidifiers, some technical powered ones, and other so simple you wouldnt beleive it, the one i am going to try first is as follows -

a simple, easy dehumidifier can be made with a plastic container, filled with charcoal, charcoal is a natural absorbant and filter, it makes "dirty" air clean, and the big thing dryer! which is what is exactly what i need. the container will have a lid over it with holse punched into it, top and bottom so that any excess moisture that it draws will drip out of the bottom.

so the testing phase will most likly begin hopefully this week, i have the shade cloth and timber that was left overs from the house when we moved in, and charcoal is pretty easy to obtain and cheap, will only be trying with a few cheap starters, the ones i got previous died pretty quickly when i last tried a few years back, I even tried more advance stock and had no luck, so fingers crossed to see how it all goes.


anyways, if anyone has any ideas, or think i am a little nuts in trying this, or have any other ideas i might be able to put to use, let me know

Jamie

Easy...
go to the recycling centre and purchase an old airconditioner...

Hi Jamie Not sure where all this info come from but my understanding is that the main issue when growing them up north will be getting them to go dormant.
I have heard of people keen enough to refrigerate them over Winter but I reckon you would be better of moving south. That's why I haven't moved up that way
We are not usually humid here but we do get very hot and windy with plenty of days over 40 and even 45 and I can grow trident maple in practically full sun without them even stopping all season!

Liz Zammit wrote:Easy...
go to the recycling centre and purchase an old airconditioner...

hi Liz

i was trying to figure it out without using power

Bretts wrote:Hi Jamie Not sure where all this info come from but my understanding is that the main issue when growing them up north will be getting them to go dormant.
I have heard of people keen enough to refrigerate them over Winter but I reckon you would be better of moving south. That's why I haven't moved up that way
We are not usually humid here but we do get very hot and windy with plenty of days over 40 and even 45 and I can grow trident maple in practically full sun without them even stopping all season!

hey brett

as you have said your tridents without them stopping all season, a tree goes dormant by temperature but more so day length, from what i have been told. The information that i wrote out has been compiled from what i have learnt and asked questions on it all. the thing is two hours south on the sunny coast i have seen them grow, normally i am just happy with growing to suit my conditions but maple have always been a fav and i had nearly given up on them, i want to have a crack at this because i might get somewhere with them.
as for putting the tree in a fridge my be a bit far but cooling the microclimate around the tree wont be as hard as getting rid of the humidity when the time comes for the tree to go dormant, as i said im pretty sure it is more so day length then temp that is a major factor.

Jamie

Bravo Jamie....with all this effort you deserve to have a maple or ten. As discussed, my tridents looked sensational for about a month and then I thought that someone had crept into the yard and sprayed them with roundup. They have always been in a relatively shaded position (morning sun) and are not exposed to wind. I pondered about root rot and/or over/underfeeding but on transplanting found a really strong and healthy root system. I repotted the forest a few weeks ago and have fingers crossed. I'm tending to agree with your humidity theory. I would suspect that if you wanted to dehumidify an "enclosure" you would have to have the area fairly well sealed.....or the ability to at least stop the constant inflow of large volumes of moist air so that your carbon has a chance to work. I wouldn't think this could be done with shade cloth. All that said.....I hope your experiment does work. Cheers Mike

my only concern is growing trees in shade keeps the burning sun off them but growing trees in full shade isnt the best for them and then theirs the dry hot winds of spring and early summer which is when the tree grows so if theirs no leaves on it it wont grow much the other thing is getting them to go full dormant in winter wont happen they may live but is that enough i like my trees to thrive there is maples down here but their not the best and their in pretty good micro climates up in the hills but hey give it a go but it all may be a waste of money $$$$$$$ not sure if the charcoal will absorb much water may be try those camel things you put in your closet

Hey Jamie,
I think your nut's.
Mick

cheers for youe thoughts dayne

i agree with ya, i like trees that will thrive, and generally stay within those limits, it is more of an experiment then anything to see if this sort of thing will work, the only cost will be the charcoal, and some cheap starters, if it is gonna work it will be pretty quick to tell with a young tree.

growing in shade isnt the same as growing under shade cloth, lots of people grow there trees under shade cloth with exceptional results. i would of thoguth those that are up in the hills like melany and montville i would of thought would be fine getting the trees go into dormancy, when i stayed there for a few days the temps got quite low, that combined with daylight length should give contributing factors of trees going into dormancy.

anyways i might just be a sucker for punishment, god knows i try

cheers mick, that makes two of us... (where is the crazy smiley??? )

Sorry guys, I can't agree that Maples won't grow happily up here. I have two that are about 20 years old. The smaller of the two I bought as a rooted cutting in 1990 in DARWIN! The larger one I got as a 'reject' in 1992 from Ray Nesci as a 'reject' for $25.00. My only concession to them here on the Fraser Coast is that I have them under 50% overhead shade. Apart from that they get no other special treatment. The only difference I notice here is that they don't display the nice colour on the leaves in the autumn. Instead, they just turn grey, curl up and fall off. Both of mine are still dormant at the moment, although I did notice one bud on the larger one starting to swell this morning.

These two photos were taken in October 2008 (Small one) and November 2008 'Larger one'. I don't have any more recent photos of them:

Interesting taffy

I havent been able to keep a maple alive up here for longer than 12 months I was growing them out in the sun with all the rest of my trees though. shade cloth might be the way to go. how do you go with propagating them?

cheers, gives me a little kick in the bum with them, maybe give them one more crack hey

Propagating from cuttings or air-layers is just fine - no problems at all. I've actually got two air-layers in black plastics at the moment and deciding which of the two to graft on to the lower trunk on the large one to make it more balanced. It's too straight with no root on the right hand side to balance it:

too much time on ya hands just move down here to civilisation.

anttal63 wrote:too much time on ya hands just move down here to civilisation.

Thats what i did , down with the mexicans and there weird weather

noah78 wrote:

anttal63 wrote:too much time on ya hands just move down here to civilisation.

Thats what i did , down with the mexicans and there weird weather

chu like it???

Living up here I am happy to accept that we carn`t grow some of the cooler climate trees, although we can grow trees like figs and other trees at a much faster rate. I forgot you had those maples taff, I love the smaller one although I think it could look better in a shallow oval pot . I think this would highlight its feminine look. Jamie you may not have to go to all that trouble ,the answer may be 50% shade cloth.
Cheers Rod....